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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:17
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quote:
Telepathy and precognition- all part of everyday justice in Floydville. |
That's exactly what you are asking me to do when you say that I shouldn't shoot burglars unless I know they mean me personal harm. I CAN'T know that, so why should the burden be on me? Again, and you haven't addressed this point yet, if a burglar doesn't want to be put in that situation, then he shouldn't be a burglar. Simple as that.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:17
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And I'm also calling bullshit on the "drunk" excuse. I've never been so drunk that I've tried to unlock what I thought was my door, failed, and got into what I thought was my house by breaking in. Come on. And I've been about as drunk as is physically possible, too - once I threw up 9 times in one night, kept on drinking in between each time of throwing up, ended the night sitting under a table at a bar, yet I STILL not only knew which apartment was mine, but I gave my ride directions to it.
Unless I just have an UNUSUALLY high tolerance for alcohol - which I don't - then the only way a drunk would actually break into a house would be intentional. Either they thought it'd be funny, they are actually trying to rob me, or something along those lines.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:17
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quote:
Hilarious- yet you've already assumed as fact that they are burglars. |
No I haven't. I've specifically made the point that people who ACT as burglars can be treated as such. If you break into my house at night on a dare, and don't actually intend to rob me, I don't know that, nor can I know that. All I know is that you are in my house behaving as a burglar. Again and again and again I've made the point that the easy way to avoid getting shot is not to act like a burglar.
Idiot.
Then again, you aren't an idiot. You're trying to argue semantics in an attempt to avoid both the point and the actual question. But you know damn well I'm not claiming telepathy, nor am I advocating it's use in telling burglars from non-burglars. Assuming you have the ability to read the English language, which I've been able to do since I was approximately 4 years old, you would know that I advocate treating anyone who acts like a burglar the same way, and that the way to avoid the problem is to avoid acting like a burglar.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:17
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But why don't we play your game for a second. Other than burglary, state one legitimate reason a person might have for breaking into my house in the middle of the night, without any attempt to knock or call first. And when I say "legitimate", I don't mean "barely within the realm of possibility". I mean something plausible. "Drunk and stupid" don't cut it.
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
And I'm also calling bullshit on the "drunk" excuse. I've never been so drunk that I've tried to unlock what I thought was my door, failed, and got into what I thought was my house by breaking in. Come on. And I've been about as drunk as is physically possible, too - once I threw up 9 times in one night, kept on drinking in between each time of throwing up, ended the night sitting under a table at a bar, yet I STILL not only knew which apartment was mine, but I gave my ride directions to it.
Unless I just have an UNUSUALLY high tolerance for alcohol - which I don't - then the only way a drunk would actually break into a house would be intentional. Either they thought it'd be funny, they are actually trying to rob me, or something along those lines. |
Are you calling me a liar?
That wasn't a second hand friend of a friend account I gave you. It was someone I worked with at the time. Walked into work "Hey, why's everything so quiet?" "Debbie's dead..."
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child of Thor
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how can you tell if the 'petty' thief is not a pshycotic, or high on drugs?
Why is he in your house univited - would you consider it reasonable behaviour to break into the house across the street from you?
If so then you must be a burgler.
If not then why make excuses for the burglers? They are the ones doing something wrong.
You really cant tell a good one from a bad one until they make their move, which could have tragic consequences for you or your family if you act to late or too 'softly'. So why give the intruder the benefit of the doubt - if he/she appears dangerous then put them down as hard as you can. Or be nice and maybe not live to watch your kids grow up?
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Lazarus and the Gimp
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Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha
thus far I'm going with the telegraph article I've posted, which matches the figures I've seen that violent crime in the UK is 10 times that of the US per capita and my other pre-concieved notions about the British.
I can not find the source of that statistic however. It doesn't seem to be anywhere in the home office report.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs04/hosb1004.pdf
Did the news report mention 1995 by any chance? something major happened then regarding crime, a massive spike upward, and all throughout this report its saying that things are better compared to that number. |
One crucial fact that you have to bear in mind is that crime statistics are basically voodoo. My immediate reaction on seeing a spike in any given year is to assume that the methodology changed. Don't go looking for archive news stories about anarchy on the streets of Britain in 1995- I was there and it felt just like any other year to me.
Britain's "violent crime" statistics can be unbelieveably all-encompassing. If they include the good old offence of "Common Assault" you're looking at a "violent" crime which caused no injury at all, was not carried out with a weapon, had no intent to kill, wound or endanger life, and quite possibly involved no contact at all. You're talking about knocking someone's hat off, or (in extreme cases) giving them a Chinese Burn.
Britain's got a big drinking culture, and lads on the piss tend to thump each other. I've been in a number of such fights myself. That's why our "violent crime" levels are high, but I'm buggered if I'm going to worry about it. When you look at homicide and rape stats, you realise that maybe we're not that bad at all.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:17
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UR,
quote:
What about wife beaters? Should they be shot, too? |
If the wife has a gun, absolutely she should be able to use it to defend herself. If I see a man beating his wife and causing severe harm to her, I should be able to shoot too.
quote:
I am sure firing a gun at another person with the intention to kill is considered murder in any civilised country. |
Self defense isn't murder.
quote:
It's not about fairness, it's about appropiate punishment. It's grossly excessive to shoot petty thieves. |
Sure, if a petty thief is put on trial, the death penalty is inappropriate. But we're not talking about due process and all that, we're talking about a burglar breaking in to someone's house, and by definition presenting a clear danger to that person. You're mixing apples and oranges.
And again, if burglars didn't, well, burglarize people to begin with, this wouldn't be an issue. They have the power to save their own lives, if they so choose.
Laz,
quote:
You leave your wallet on your window sill, with window open. Burglar puts hand through window, grabs wallet and runs away. |
That isn't a case of breaking and entering, nor is it a case of a burglar entering your house. It's a different scenario.
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If he's in your house and you have good reason to feel threatened, it's clear-cut self defence. Blaze away, my boy. |
And my only point is that I have good reason to feel threatened AUTOMATICALLY when someone is in my house.
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If the victim is defending himself, there's no problem at all. However shooting a burglar as they run away from you is not self-defence. |
If they have your stuff and won't give it back, I really don't see a problem with shooting to be quite honest with you. Again, don't rob people and you won't have to worry about it.
quote:
A friend of mine sneaked out of her house after her parents had gone to bed so she could **** her boyfriend (she was 14). Unfortunately she came back in via the back door at the same time her father got up for a piss. He panicked and decked her with a good right hook. |
And unfortunately, that example doesn't work either, because it is a case of someone acting like a burglar. If you act like a burglar, you get treated as such.
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It happened to Robert Downey Jr. |
Fair enough. It's just hard for me to fathom people being that out of control, no matter how much they've had to drink, and I speak from experience.
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Yup. A British court would agree with that. |
As long as you don't use a gun or a collapsable baton, of course 
St. Leo,
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Uh huh. I assume your reasoning is: etc. |
No, my reasoning is this:
1)A burglar by definition commits a violent crime by breaking into your house.
2)As the burglar has already committed one violent crime, you have no reason to assume he won't commit another.
3)You have a valid right to self defense.
4)You don't know whether or not the burglar will kill you.
5)The situation wouldn't exist if the burglar hadn't committed a violent crime to begin with.
6)Shooting the burglar is justified, as you have a valid reason to feel that your life/health is in danger.
Gibsie,
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If you're going to trip up DF, you're certainly going to have to come up with something that someone like myself can't poke holes in |
Nice to see someone gives me a little bit of credit. Jesus Christ - we may disagree, but at least I don't treat people like five year olds.
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08-12-2004 16:20
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