14-12-2004 10:51									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I'm predicting he will this year in the playoffs.

:shrug: With their history, who knows. But he's had great problems with them so far.

And Farve is just Farve.

	14-12-2004 10:54									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Kalius He only threw a 90 point passer rating against NE this year... yeah, the loss was his fault.

Well, without James, who is blamed for the loss, with his 142 yards rushing they wouldn't even be close to winning. As a QB who calls most of the offensive plays, Manning has to be ultimately responsible.

	14-12-2004 11:00									#213
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quote: Well, without James, who is blamed for the loss, with his 142 yards rushing they wouldn't even be close to winning. As a QB who calls most of the offensive plays, Manning has to be ultimately responsible.

Yes, clearly Manning is responsible for James fumbling twice in the red-zone. Shame on Manning. He should become a pep talker, and spend 30 minutes calming down Edgerrin so he doesn't reach out unneccesarily.

What a crock of **** you just spurted out.

	14-12-2004 11:00									#214
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I pronounce Imran unfit to discuss football. I have decreed it.

	14-12-2004 11:01									#215
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Indy uses play action a lot. Manning has a lot to do with the yards James gets.

	14-12-2004 11:09									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I pronounce Imran unfit to discuss football. I have decreed it.

We all agree so it must be true.

	14-12-2004 11:09									#217
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quote: Yes, clearly Manning is responsible for James fumbling twice in the red-zone. Shame on Manning. He should become a pep talker, and spend 30 minutes calming down Edgerrin so he doesn't reach out unneccesarily. What a crock of **** you just spurted out.

Fine take out James' 2 fumbles and ALSO take out his 142 yards. See what that gets you. When was the last time Manning beat New England, btw?

Btw, that NE game was also Manning's worst statistically this year. Perhaps if he avoided his INT, they may have won. When you are the QB AND you call most of the plays you get the blame. Just like you get the credit if you win.

When Manning beats Brady's Patriots, then we can come back and talk.

	14-12-2004 11:10									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Indy uses play action a lot. Manning has a lot to do with the yards James gets.

James ran 30 times that game. I think the Pats knew that James was coming .

	14-12-2004 11:13									#219
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui James ran 30 times that game. I think the Pats knew that James was coming .

No they didn't. Indy is the best play action team in the game.

	14-12-2004 11:15									#220
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quote: No they didn't. Indy is the best play action team in the game.

30 Rushing attempts by one guy! They ran 42 times and passed only 29 times that day. The Pats have the Colts number, I think they knew Indy was going to run. James was just that good that day.

	14-12-2004 11:15									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui When Manning beats Brady's Patriots, then we can come back and talk.

Why do you measur it by this standard? Do you think GB could beat the Pats?

	14-12-2004 11:16									#222
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Does Farve get Manning's weapons?

	14-12-2004 11:20									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Does Farve get Manning's weapons?

That really doesn't make much sense. The Packers are built for Farve. For example, Driver really isn't very good, but he does well with Farve.

	14-12-2004 11:23									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious That really doesn't make much sense. The Packers are built for Farve. For example, Driver really isn't very good, but he does well with Farve.

Now that doesn't make sense. The Packers built for Farve? If they were built for Farve, he'd have much better WRs. Walker is good, but Driver? Come on! You don't think Farve would rather have a WR3 and WR2 like Stokley and Wayne? Not saying that Farve would put up Manning-like numbers, but his number would be better than the good numbers he has so far put up (and I'd think he'd find a way to beat New England ).


(psst, you think Kalius has figured it out yet? )

	14-12-2004 11:26									#225
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1. Driver is good at coming down with the ball 1 on 1, and Farve likes that.

2. Stokley isn't that good and you know it.

	14-12-2004 11:36									#226
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Naw, Driver ain't that good. It's only because Farve is good that Driver seems better. That's why he was pushed down by Walker.

And Stokley is definetly a very good WR. He's a #2 playing a #3. Always been a deep threat, but never used that much to his potential as he is now. He's better than Az-Hakim when he was #3 for those Rams teams of '99-'01.

	14-12-2004 11:46									#227
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There are a lot of number three recievers that could have the stats that Stokley has if they were on Indy. Stokley gets his numbers because of the team he's on. And no. There is no way he is as good as Az-Hakim.

And he wouldn't do very well on the Packers. He does well because of the play action that Indy does.

	14-12-2004 11:52									#228
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Oh yes, he's as good as Az-Hakim. Az-Hakim is so overrated it's funny. He was so crap, he was dropped to 3rd string in DETROIT. Until, the (fortunate?) injury of Charles Rodgers. He hasn't even gotten 50 catches in Detroit.

quote: And he wouldn't do very well on the Packers. He does well because of the play action that Indy does.

What Bull. I'm suprised you don't claim that Marvin Harrison only does good because of Indy's play action, the way you are sucking the dick of the 'play action'.

After all, you've already claimed that James gets all those yards because of the 'play action'. Because he was such a suprise and not drafted 4th in the draft, nooooo .

	14-12-2004 11:59									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui What Bull. I'm suprised you don't claim that Marvin Harrison only does good because of Indy's play action, the way you are sucking the dick of the 'play action'.

Play action works because of Manning. No Harrison isn't getting as much stats this year, but he does get a lot of pressure taken off of him because of the play action.

	14-12-2004 12:01									#230
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And Rogers is better that Az-Hakim, but then he's better than Stokley too, now isn't he?

	14-12-2004 12:04									#231
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Thanks goes to Billy Volek, Drew Bennett and Derrick Mason

They saved my a$$ getting into the playoffs on at least one of my teams.

Anyway, out of 8 teams I have 5 in the playoffs with 2 1st place finishes (which is more important to me than winning the playoffs). But I got killed in both Poly leagues

	14-12-2004 12:07									#232
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quote: Play action works because of Manning.

So Harrison was only good when Manning came around and had his 'play action'?! He wasn't exactly shabby in his first two years, before Manning came along, when an aging Jim Harbaugh and incompitent Paul Justin were his QBs.

And to go back to your silly statement that the play action makes James good. I'd say that James is what makes the play action so good . You can't do a play action without a successful running game and I don't think it is a coincidence that the one year when James was out for most of the year was the ONLY year that James has played for a losing team. When James has done good, Manning has done good. That one year when James played only 6 games, Manning had almost the same number of INTs as TDs, which he hadn't had since his rookie year.

	14-12-2004 12:08									#233
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quote: And Rogers is better that Az-Hakim, but then he's better than Stokley too, now isn't he?

And Stokley is better than Az-Hakim. He'd catch more in Detroit than Az-Hakim's 25 receptions.

	14-12-2004 19:04									#234
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Kid has play action in reverse. Play action results in good pass plays, but only works when you have a credible running threat. It is James who makes Manning's play action successful. It is not Manning's play action that makes James a better runner. Look at some of the other successful play action teams:
Pittsburgh
New England
Green Bay
They all have credible running threats.

	14-12-2004 19:18									#235
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In most cases Pchang would be correct. However I do think that Indy's passing setups the run more than the run setting up the pass. I think if you watched tape teams probably bite less on Indies play action then on say Pittsburgh.

	14-12-2004 20:02									#236
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Made it above .500 at 8-6 but lost on the tiebreaker so will not be in the Poly League playoffs.

Congrats to Zopperoni for winning our league.

	14-12-2004 20:08									#237
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quote: And people still fault him for that.

And when he does make it, he can't win it.

	14-12-2004 20:55									#238
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quote: Originally posted by pchang Kid has play action in reverse. Play action results in good pass plays, but only works when you have a credible running threat. It is James who makes Manning's play action successful. It is not Manning's play action that makes James a better runner. Look at some of the other successful play action teams: Pittsburgh New England Green Bay They all have credible running threats.

It doesn't seem like you've watched them play. You might actually try that so that you can see defenses drop back into coverage on running plays. That's when James gets his big runs.

	15-12-2004 01:47									#239
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quote: You don't think Farve would rather have a WR3 and WR2 like Stokley and Wayne? Not saying that Farve would put up Manning-like numbers, but his number would be better than the good numbers he has so far put up (and I'd think he'd find a way to beat New England ).

The same Stokely who was cut from Baltimore of all teams when he was a slot receiver there? If he's that good a player, wouldn't he have stayed there considering how badly Baltimore needs a good WR?

quote: Fine take out James' 2 fumbles and ALSO take out his 142 yards. See what that gets you. When was the last time Manning beat New England, btw?

You don't quite understand do you. James admitted after the game he was too pumped up for the game, and decided to start reaching out to gain extra yards, to keep the offense going, when he really didn't need to. Both of those fumbles came from reaching out when he never does that normally. Also for the sake of your argument, lets say James didn't play. We still have Dominic Rhodes who was carving them up just as good when James was resting.

quote: Btw, that NE game was also Manning's worst statistically this year.

Hmmm... I'm quite sure most teams in the league would take a 90 point passer rating on any day.

quote: Perhaps if he avoided his INT, they may have won.

Perhaps if James hadn't been so pumped up and careless, we would have won. It works both ways.

quote: When you are the QB AND you call most of the plays you get the blame. Just like you get the credit if you win.

So what? A lot of those yards you claim to be all James we called by Manning at the line of scrimmage because he saw the NT was crap in a 3-4 at the time.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why Manning was to blame for James' fumbles.

quote: When Manning beats Brady's Patriots, then we can come back and talk.

I thought it was the Belichick block? Didn't Manning post a perfect game against Belichick's Patriots? Yes, I'm quite sure he did.

quote: What Bull. I'm suprised you don't claim that Marvin Harrison only does good because of Indy's play action, the way you are sucking the dick of the 'play action'.

Ever played football? Obviously not. Generally there is a safety on Stokely because teams don't want to move out of their base defense. When there is a play-action, the safeties have to take notice because, well, they're safeties. With Stokely's speed, the play action makes up for his sub-par accelleration and he burns safeties like toast. There was a piece of film showed on Sportscenter about Stokely's emergence in the Colts' system, and when the safety bit hard enough, they had no chance to recover. He is a slot receiver, and is best in the slot because of that. He wouldn't be as well as a #2 receiver when he doesn't have a slower safety on him.

	15-12-2004 03:05									#240
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quote: The same Stokely who was cut from Baltimore of all teams when he was a slot receiver there? If he's that good a player, wouldn't he have stayed there considering how badly Baltimore needs a good WR?

Btw, Priest Holmes was cut from Baltimore. They had to draft Jamal Lewis with an early first round pick because they had no faith in Holmes. Damn he must have sucked too .

quote: James admitted after the game he was too pumped up for the game, and decided to start reaching out to gain extra yards, to keep the offense going, when he really didn't need to. Both of those fumbles came from reaching out when he never does that normally. Also for the sake of your argument, lets say James didn't play. We still have Dominic Rhodes who was carving them up just as good when James was resting.

Rhodes had 10 runs in the game as a change of pace back. There is a reason that 2nd sting RBs whose YPC may be better than the starter but never will supplant the starter. Because if they had to play every down (especially running downs) that would go down.

HOWEVER, in that game James YPC was GREATER than Rhodes.

quote: Hmmm... I'm quite sure most teams in the league would take a 90 point passer rating on any day.

I'm sure most teams would rather take the win .

quote: I'm still waiting for you to explain why Manning was to blame for James' fumbles.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why Manning isn't to blame for getting intercepted at the NE 6 yard line or getting sacked on the last offensive play, causing Vanderjagt to have a much longer kick.

quote: Ever played football? Obviously not. Generally there is a safety on Stokely because teams don't want to move out of their base defense. When there is a play-action, the safeties have to take notice because, well, they're safeties. With Stokely's speed, the play action makes up for his sub-par accelleration and he burns safeties like toast. There was a piece of film showed on Sportscenter about Stokely's emergence in the Colts' system, and when the safety bit hard enough, they had no chance to recover. He is a slot receiver, and is best in the slot because of that. He wouldn't be as well as a #2 receiver when he doesn't have a slower safety on him.

Hasn't Stokley ALWAYS been in the slot? I don't recall him doing this well last year and there has been very little change to the offensive personnel. Its because they've started to look at him in the passing game more, realizing his talent.

And why wouldn't he do just as good as the play action that Farve would do? Is he not allowed to be in the slot in Green Bay? Plenty of WR2 and even #1 WR line up in the slot. Jerry Rice made a living of lining up in the slot at least a 1/3rd of the time when he was the best reciever in the league.

WR2 has to always line up at the end? Ever play football? Obviously not.

Besides, many teams are playing against Indy with more than 2 CBs. Houston, for example, played 3 CBs (Faggins, Robinson, and Glenn).

--------

Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn!

Duckett is out for the rest of the regular season with artroscopic knee surgery!