07-12-2004 01:10									#1
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I've been pretty bored being without many PBEMs for all this time, but now that I finally seem to be getting over my illness, I'd like to get back into the action. I'm looking for 2-3 other players (preferably experienced) for a PBEM. I don't really care much for what the rules might be, so feel free to speak up if you've got some creative idea. I'd prefer to be taking the Uni of course (With the PK's or Angels as my partner faction if it's a 3x2 game), and I'm not opposed to use of Alien factions by players if that's what they want.

So, any takers?

	07-12-2004 03:18									#2
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I'd be up for another PBEM. I'll play any faction without an industry penalty happily, and I'm open to new rules/mods.

	08-12-2004 05:04									#3
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I'm up for another game, as I seem to be in not very many that are active. Any faction, any rules (maybe we can twist Darsnan's arm to CMN one for us)

	18-12-2004 09:43									#4
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Hey guys, your thread sort of fell off the radar screen so I thought I'd give it a bump. I'll sit in as the 4th player if you'd like. A couple of things though, I don't want to mess with mods or the alphatxt, I'd like it to be a huge planet, and I'd like combined victory off. I suspect this is not what you're looking for but I figured it can't hurt to ask. BTW, I've never played the Data Angels but I'd like to give them a try. Oh, and as far as new rules go, I like the idea in the current ACDG where choppers are forbidden to attack bases.

	18-12-2004 13:48									#5
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I've actually got a nice 4 player map already designed (its "not making the grade" for my next CGN Challenge, but is a well balanced PBEM map). Its Huge, weak erosion, and about 70% land, in case your interested in using this one. Or I could go from scratch if you prefer.

quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior I don't want to mess with mods or the alphatxt, I'd like it to be a huge planet, and I'd like combined victory off. Oh, and as far as new rules go, I like the idea in the current ACDG where choppers are forbidden to attack bases.

Once everyone has agreed to the rules, if someone could synopsize for me exacly what the game parameters are, then I can build the game from there. FYI.


D

	19-12-2004 07:30									#6
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Human Players:

Archaic - University
Chaos Theory - CyBorgs
Net Warrior - Data Angels
Googlie - Pirates (maybe tweak your 70% land map to give me a couple of fjords to hide bases in?)

AI - any 3 (except maybe the Aliens, unless we ban nervegassing them - or move nervegas to SingMech, to equate with their being able to summon the battlefleet - ie, we get as many turns to eradicate them as it takes them to build their 6 subspace generators)

Huge Planet, weak erosion, and 70% land (well, maybe a tad more water is fine. I'd suggest dense cloudcover and rare alien lifeforms as well. Random on, co-op off, no spoils (as that's the CyCon faction advantage)

Good AI might be Hive, Domai and the PK's with suitable Darsnan enhanced capabilities if we want some builder-researcher competiotion, or else the Believers. Sparta and an aggressive gaian faction (maybe then with average or abundant native life) if we want some harrassment and military forays against us.

I'd agree with the "choppers can't attack bases" rule as well

	19-12-2004 09:39									#7
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I was just reading a thread where it was explained that the Data Angels only get to techshare with factions they have infiltrated. This changes my opinion on the faction.
If it's not too late, I think I'll switch to playing the Free Drones instead.

	19-12-2004 09:56									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior If it's not too late, I think I'll switch to playing the Free Drones instead.

No, its not too late. I probably won't start work on this till late Sunday (am fervently working on finishing the first pass on my next CGN Challenge). So please feel free to discuss and post options till then. FYI.


D

	19-12-2004 20:32									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior I was just reading a thread where it was explained that the Data Angels only get to techshare with factions they have infiltrated. This changes my opinion on the faction.

And only when 3 of your infiltrees have that tech!!

But - you then develop immediate infiltration strategies

• get after the other 3 humans quickly, before they get their probe defenses up - and a 70% land map suggests your longstriders can easily move around in it
  
• infiltrate the 3 AI (whose probe defenses will not be well-developed at any time) and if Darsnan can make them decent builders/researchers you'll get some juicy techs for cheap
  
• build thr Empath Guild (if not disabled by our CMN) and you'll have a steady stream of techs coming your way
  
• Get elected governor, and ditto
  
• Pact with everybody

	19-12-2004 21:36									#10
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Googlie,

Yes, I considered all that but being an incouragable builder, having to go full bore on infiltration would throw off my game. I was hoping it would just come to me. It's a good thing I found out otherwise before we began.

Feel free to try it yourself as the Data Angels if you'd like. Especially if we stick to 70% land, you might want to think twice about the Pirates.

BTW, I would also prefer a bit more water.

NW

	24-12-2004 00:38									#11
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I had sent an E-Mail to Googlie asking if he was interested in using the "Unity Escape Pod" clones that I have cooked up, but haven't heard back from him, so I assume not.
I am starting work now on your PBEM, with Net Warrior as a Drone instead of Data Angel. Game should be ready around the 26th. FYI.


D

	26-12-2004 06:56									#12
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OK, the map is about ready, but I am of several minds as to how to set up the AI's.
Something that has been brought to us CMN's attention by Kody recently was what can be best described as the ability to build "Ghost Secret Projects". Essentially in the past we CMN used to boost the potency of AI's by giving them various Secret Projects in order to make them more viable in whatever game environment the CMN placed them in. Now CMN do not need to actually give an SP to an AI Faction, but instead can just endow the SP's abilities onto a desired Faction, while still making the actual SP available to all Factions during the real PBEM game. Cool, huh!!? (and so next time you see Kody in the Rec Commons, buy him a drink....).
So, anyways, getting back to the AI's for this game: I am thinking of just placing a pair of AI's into this PBEM (instead of the 3 allotted slots I have), and gifting them both the Planetary Datalinks Ghost SP, meaning they will each receive any tech known to 3 other Factions. I'm also thinking of the two AI's being the two Progenitor Factions. My reasoning for this is that because there are two Research Factions in this PBEM (Archaic's Uni's and Chaos Theory's Cyborgs) that the other two human Factions will just then Probe away any techs learned by the Progenitors thru the PD Ghost SP, thus negating the Research Factions natural advantage. I believe I have come up with a formula that will work for the Prog's.
I would like feedback on this before I proceed, as this is my first foray into building a PBEM with "Ghost SP's", and because of the Factions involved as well as the choice of Ghost SP's I plan on using, I'd like to see how the players feel about this before I just "surprise" them with it. If you don't like the idea of Ghost SP's, or would like me to invent another formula for this PBEM, why I'm currently signed up to build 4 PBEM's, and I'm sure somewhere along the line I'll find my Research Hospital "volunteers".....
If you do decide to run with the Ghost SP's, then one thing that I usually don't request is that I would like to name this PBEM "Uncharted Waters", because it erally is uncharted territory for us CMN.
Couple other notes: Passwords - if you've got a choice, let me know (Googlie I can use your latest unless you've changed again). Finally on the topic of starting units: if the Uni's starting free tech is Centauri Ecology, then no one else gets free Formers, as thius would take away from the Uni's starting Faction advatange (Archaic please just let me know here which way to proceed).


D

	26-12-2004 12:44									#13
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I'm fine with stronger AI.

	26-12-2004 18:36									#14
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Do I understand correctly that we'll be playing with only 6 factions? Well, that should be interesting. A little more isolation should result, which I usually appreciate.

Darsnan, please use the same password for me that I used in Laptop, and Laptop ll. My email address remains, billci54@hotmail.com.

	26-12-2004 19:17									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior Do I understand correctly that we'll be playing with only 6 factions? Well, that should be interesting.

Yes, I am proposing only 6 Factions, and that they both be Progenitor. Something else I also thought of is that I can gift the two Progenitor Factions the HSA Ghost SP as well. This will then ensure that the two human research Factions don't lose all their tech lead to the non-research oriented Factions.
Anyone have any feedback on this?



D

	26-12-2004 19:28									#16
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So that would create 4 super research factions and two retarded research factions? Hmmm....

	26-12-2004 19:41									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior So that would create 4 super research factions and two retarded research factions? Hmmm....

Shrug. Currently I'm just suggestiong options. My only point was I didn't want the Research Factions to lose all their natural advantage thru something I had done: giving the AI's the HSA Ghost SP would solve that, but your right it would make you and Googlie's lives more "difficult".


D

	26-12-2004 19:48									#18
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The thing about 'Ghost SPs' seem to be very interesting.
Have you tried adding ME such way?
I mean - is there any possibility to dictate in which city the Ghost SP is built, or the bonuses are just applied as any other faction bonuses/penalties?

If the GSP (Ghost SP) is bound to a city, wouldn't that be easy for a momentum human player to go and find the exact city just by conquering them one by one?

OR

if the GSP is not and can't (ME) be bound to the city how would city-centered SPs would behave?
e.g. ME, LV@FM, SC, TOE and possiblt some more which I don't recall..

	26-12-2004 19:51									#19
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Maybe you could give the AI the Planetary Transit System or some other SP instead of Planetary Datalinks. In any event, I think the HSA in the hands of both AI factions would unbalance things.

Last edited by Net Warrior on 26-12-2004 at 20:25

	26-12-2004 20:00									#20
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin The thing about 'Ghost SPs' seem to be very interesting. Have you tried adding ME such way? I mean - is there any possibility to dictate in which city the Ghost SP is built, or the bonuses are just applied as any other faction bonuses/penalties?

No, it doesn't work like that. Essentially the term "Ghost SP" is what I have taken to calling this CMN ability that Kody has discovered. It generalizes the concept, but isn't 100% accurate in its definition.

quote: Originally posted by binTravkin if the GSP is not and can't (ME) be bound to the city how would city-centered SPs would behave? e.g. ME, LV@FM, SC, TOE and possiblt some more which I don't recall..

You are correct in that, because it is a "Ghost SP", then it doesn't reside in one city, and so cannot endow a single city with its effects. However, the "effect" is still felt by the endowed Faction. The positive sides for this is that the endowed Faction cannot then be plundered for a physical SP, something that happens more often than not when CMN's tried giving AI's SP's. A huge step forward for CMN's!
If you are interested in seeing an example of this why you can volunteer to playtest my next CGN Challenge. This then should give you a good idea of what I am describing.


D

	26-12-2004 20:11									#21
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Where can i sign then?

Also - what benefits then ME gives?
+1 energy in EACH base?

	26-12-2004 20:23									#22
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin Where can i sign then?

Here

quote: Originally posted by binTravkin Also - what benefits then ME gives? +1 energy in EACH base?

No it wouldn't give +1 Energy for each worked square in each base, if thats what your implying. And no I'm not going to answer specific questions about how this is done, either. Suffice it to say that this is a huge boon for SMAC(X) players who enjoy a more challenging AI, and that you should enjoy the games created using this effect.
Since I will be setting up a PBEM for you shortly, then if you want to discuss what, if any, Ghost SP's the AI's have in your game, then please continue this discussion there.


D

	26-12-2004 20:46									#23
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quote: And no I'm not going to answer specific questions about how this is done, either.

You misunderstood me, I was not asking how it is done, but I was asking how does it look when city-centered SPs are given as GSPs..
Do they even work?

Also, do you remember that old idea of giving Energy Sats to AIs?
That time you admitted that it'd be an optimal boost for AI as it won't give him early SPs but rather a balanced bonus for research+rushing+probing.

	27-12-2004 14:21									#24
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Apologies for the lack of postage in this thread by me thusfar. Been having internet troubles. Also, I'll be in Tokyo until the 1st, so I won't be able to play until then, if it even gets started before then.

In any case, whatever rules are decided upon are fine by me. This looks to end up being a pretty high level match, which is fine by me. Be good to see how I compare to all of you.

	27-12-2004 20:43									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic I'll be in Tokyo until the 1st, so I won't be able to play until then, if it even gets started before then.

I'll put you last in rotation - that way it'll impact turnage minimally.
Since there doesn't seem to be too much interest in having the Progenitors in this one, I'll save them for another game. It'll be Hive and Sparta as the two AI's. Turnage will be as follows:

Net Warrior (Drones)
Chaos Theory (Cyborg)
Googlie (Pirates)
Archaic (Uni's)


First turn should be out in about 10 hours. FYI.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Empath Guild disabled unless someone wants to argue with Googlie about it...


D

	28-12-2004 03:52									#26
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As far as I'm concerned you can disable the CBA too

	28-12-2004 06:55									#27
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"Uncharted Waters" game thread started here .

This thread is now closed.


D