09-12-2004 14:08									#1
	How to get rid of GHOST TURN bug in Red Front 1.4, 1.5 & TOT Inflate your Upload Space

A very simple and quick procedure will get rid of the ghost turn bug in all versions of Red Front.

For RF 1.4 and TOT (or where there are no Soviet units that still have movement) do the following:

1. Start the scenario as GERMANY!
2. Activate CHEAT mode.
3. Save as a scenario, either with the original name or, if you want to keep the original, as something like Good Redfront.scn
4. Exit
5. Start Good Redfront.scn as SOVIETS.
6. The Germans will get their June '41 turn which ends with an End of Turn. Click on the EOT and you will get the Soviet July turn.



For RF 1.5 (or where some Soviet units can move)

1. Start the scenario as GERMANY!
2. Activate CHEAT mode.
3. Switch to Soviets.
4. Complete the movement of ~20 Soviet units that have some movement left. You can start locating active units by clicking on any of the freighters in the Black sea. It does not matter if movement is completed using space bar, s or f. Keep going until EOT appears.
5. Switch to Germans.
6. Save as a scenario, either with the original name or, if you want to keep the original, as something like Good Redfront.scn
7. Exit
8. Start Good Redfront.scn as SOVIETS.
9. The Germans will get their June '41 turn which ends with an End of Turn. Click on the EOT and you will get the Soviet July turn.

Last edited by AGRICOLA on 10-12-2004 at 17:52

	10-12-2004 02:01									#2
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So the ghost turn really is a bug? I always thought it was a sort of "surprise" opening move to Barbarossa.

	10-12-2004 03:30									#3
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Does anyone know for sure if Captain Nemo considered it a bug or a means to strengthen the German assault?

Smash at CFC feels that it is the latter. Field Marshal Klesh thinks that it is a bug. Which is it?

	10-12-2004 03:44									#4
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Best way to know would be to go straight to the source.

	10-12-2004 04:57									#5
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One can interpret the partial German extra turn as a deliberate means to more accurately calibrate the strength of the initial German attack or to model the German special operations against the Red Air Force and ground units that started before dawn on June 22.

The RF 1.4 Readme provides no information on this. It would indeed be interesting to know what he intended as I may have inadvertently done dirt to his scenario.

If you consider it inadvisable to bother Captain Nemo with this, are you by any chance still in contact with any of the individuals who contributed to the project and who might know the author's intentions? The recurring discussions about how the Soviets should play the ghost turn may have been quite unnecessary.

	10-12-2004 12:08									#6
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Agricola,

Your first explanation is the correct one. I've contacted Nemo about this and the answer was straightforward. It's meant to be there as a part of the scenario.

The ghost turn is intended to represent the initial German onslaught and a way to demoralize the player because the Red Army forces are powerless to stop it.

	10-12-2004 17:44									#7
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Thank you very much for going to the trouble of contacting Captain Nemo. Demoralize players? Scare the bejesus (or worse) out of them seems more accurate.

His answer seems to shed light on another aspect of the scenario. I suppose that, as a consequence of his reply, past discussions about what the Soviets can and cannot do during their ghost turn are pretty well academic.

As the German ghost turn is deliberate and the Readme says nothing about limiting Soviet actions during their ghost turn, a player is apparently free to do anything that he can during the Soviet ghost turn . . . change build queues, maximize research, rush build, move any units that can be moved and so on.

If that is correct, then the negative impact of the ghost turn can be considerably lessened.

Again, many thanks for settling a question that has been floating around for quite some time.

	11-12-2004 00:44									#8
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No problem, glad that the mystery has been cleared up AND it means the ghost turn will stay!

	12-12-2004 00:35									#9
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Maybe I am mistaken. AGRICOLA, can you outline exactly what happens when the ghost turn occurs.

I have a response to the posts above but I want to make sure I am clear on exactly what we are talking about.

	14-12-2004 00:05									#10
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quote: Originally posted by CapTVK Agricola, Your first explanation is the correct one. I've contacted Nemo about this and the answer was straightforward. It's meant to be there as a part of the scenario. The ghost turn is intended to represent the initial German onslaught and a way to demoralize the player because the Red Army forces are powerless to stop it.

How does a pause between turns where the Soviet player is allowed to change build orders and disband units demoralize the player? If anything it gives the Red Army more power to stop the initial German onslaught by giving him a production cycle with which to get the units he wants.

	14-12-2004 05:16									#11
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Right. I think the issue here is the term 'ghost turn'. Some people are thinking one thing and others are thinking something else.

GHOST TURN:German June '41 turn (turn where soviets have already moved).

or

GHOST TURN:Soviet June'41 turn created by Partisan creation (where they are allowed to fiddle with their civ).

The former is what I believe Cpt. Nemo is refering to, and is what I intend to keep in the game. The latter is, I believe, non-intentional and a quirk of the partisan events in MGE. If the latter can be removed whislt keeping the former, I think it is the best thing to do.