17-12-2004 19:24									#31
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EDIT: this explanation is wrong and generally sucks because it is poorly written. See below.

A variant of that tactic:

Say you conquer another civ, but for whatever reason leave them with 1 city. You could kill 'em, but chose not to get things from them for peace (tech, probably). But you want them dead, to make absolutely sure none of the cities you've just taken flip back to them. But you also want to keep your reputation spotless.

You spot another AI's stack of doom approaching you. They are going right past the 1-city civ...

Heh. The AI will make deals with you right up until the very moment they attack you. So, use your soon-to-be-enemy to destroy your former enemy, and possibly buy yourself an extra turn to respond to the new threat.

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 17-12-2004 at 21:51

	17-12-2004 20:27									#32
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I don't quite follow you, Arrian. What are you proposing? Say you're at war with America and you reduce them to one city. You don't want to finish them off because you want tech, etc., from them in a peace treaty. America has contact with everyone, presumably, or at least enough that you can't simple wipe them out without a rep hit. Then you spot an Aztec stack moving towards you, past the American city. How do you get them to attack the Americans at this point?

	17-12-2004 20:39									#33
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If your only goal was to sign peace with that civ that is now doing OCC, then you just signed it, getting all you wanted, right? So it's not a problem for you, to get an alliance against them now. Of course, this will ruin your reputation forever. I guess the small guy only gets clobbered to weaken the entering AI stack.

	17-12-2004 21:08									#34
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Yes, but then why not just destroy them yourself?

	17-12-2004 21:24									#35
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Some units from the new stack would be diverted right? This would buy you time, and free your units from finish-them-off duty. This is the only benefit I see here.

	17-12-2004 21:44									#36
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It's a very specific situtation, and doesn't present itself all that often. I also explained it incorrectly.

I'll rephrase:

I attack America. I knock America to 1 city. I make peace w/America for tech. Assume no Deception is possible (contact w/other civs). Given that, and the desire to keep my rep intact, I cannot destroy America for 20 turns.

Then I spot an incoming SoD that's going to "sneak" attack me.

[here was my mistake] I sign up America as my ally to fight my new enemy. This works best, of course, if some of the incoming AI troopers have already made it to my territory, so I can demand they leave or declare war first.

America, being a weak 1 city civ, will get crushed.

-Arrian

	17-12-2004 22:05									#37
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Ahh, I see. Now that was evil. And fun, I'm sure.

	17-12-2004 22:06									#38
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oic. Still, this is fairly cost-intensive, as you lose WH benefits as well as taking WW hits if in a representative gov. Also, it presumes you currently have no trade with the Aztecs, not to mention losing the ability to buy a tech/lump sum/ etc. for only a turn or two of gpt. You may even be able to "buy peace" this way, if you can actually afford and are willing to make the gpt payments.

	17-12-2004 22:18									#39
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Well, like I said, the best-case scenario would be to be able to do a "leave or declare war" and get the new attacker to declare on you.

I guess I shouldn't have put the SoD in the example... what's more relevant is that the new attacker must march its troops past the shattered remnants of the civ you've just made peace with. So, during the course of the war, you can get America eliminated.

-Arrian

	17-12-2004 22:45									#40
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Fair enough.

	17-12-2004 22:55									#41
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It's not something that is going to have any great effect the game. It's just a (small) trick for the bag.

-Arrian

	17-12-2004 23:08									#42
	Remove this text

It's not so small actually. As someone pointed out earlier, this can be done with bigger AIs as well. Call them buffer states, or what not. If they have a couple cities, the war might stall the aggressor for quite long, while still making the small civ die.

	17-12-2004 23:17									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian It's not something that is going to have any great effect the game. It's just a (small) trick for the bag. -Arrian

We'll call it a stocking stuffer

	21-12-2004 19:58									#44
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Allies in a computer game

	22-12-2004 21:14									#45
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Arrian, that IS an evil little trick.

Modo, would you like to expand on your excellent post, and perhaps we'll have a new Must Read thread?