10-12-2004 23:06									#1
	2151 End Turn and 2152 Discussion Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The new turn is up. I plan on playing it later today. Here it is if you want to take a look...

P.S. Who glued this crazy hat to my head?!

Attachment: acdg3-morgans-2151.zip
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	11-12-2004 01:35									#2
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We have infiltrated the Hive. They have 30 impact infantry and 9 impact speeders. They have zero transports, so Choke On This will be our only possible point of contact.

PEG is complete. Our income is now officially through the roof: 125 ec/turn.

PEG provides +25% for stockpiling, so increasing min production also provides a modest income boost. Does anybody know if we need 8 mins to take advantage of that (8 mins -> 4 ec -> 5 ec)? Most bases have 4-6 mins. One rocky mine per base would increase that to 8. If we get the +25% on the first min, then 10 mins -> 5 ec -> 7 ec. That 10 min threshold is also good for rushing something every turn to full completion.

The Spartans completed the Command Nexus. They've also started the Maritime Control Center! As we noticed before, they're in Fundy. They are preparing to create the ultimate war machine. They will pump out fast, cheap elite infantry, and put them on super-fast cruiser transports (speed 8!), invading everything in sight. I'd like to point out that Missile Infantry are only two rows. So, the Spartans getting SFF will be a turning point in this game. We may not be able to leap-frog to DAP with them, because they could probably land a huge missile infantry force before we could build any planes.

We need HEC ASAP, then SFF and DAP. It doesn't look like our 'Gator Boat can get to a Hive port in time to steal Soc Pysch before we finish it. We may need to buy Soc Psych from the Spartans so we can get HEC sooner.

Attachment: acdg3-morgans-2151_midturn.zip
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	11-12-2004 03:04									#3
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I was hoping on us getting a badass navy and the MCC, but :P

Espionage on the Hive? I'd rather us steal from Uni. They'll be easier to defend against.

Hmm... the nefarious "Santa Claus" has struck again. He can put stuff on our heads, but he can't make us... give to (of all people) the poor.

	11-12-2004 03:58									#4
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I forgot to mention that cruiser transports carry four units. That's another big step in their invasion power.

Can we consider stopping all payments to the Spartans until they give us infiltration? Or is that too extortionist for anybody? I bet Chaunk wouldn't like it.

They've infiltrated us... I think the writing is on the wall-- they're going to invade us and take our SP's. Wouldn't you? So, let's switch from the ally mode of keeping our word to the survival mode of not giving them one more cent of invasion funds.

Last edited by jtsisyoda on 11-12-2004 at 04:04

	11-12-2004 04:10									#5
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We could tell the Spartans they have to give us all their information (maps, etc.) on the other two factions, provide a plan for attacking them, and proof the plan is being carried out. Otherwise the treaty and other agreements are void, on account of their overly-aggressive posture. Or maybe they could alternatively provide Soc Psych, free.

	11-12-2004 05:26									#6
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They've started the MCC :P. I was really hoping the Spartans wouldn't give much attention to the navy so we could quietly nab the MCC.

If we are really concerned, I'd pump out coastal cities, and have them pump out laser foils until we can steal better tech from the Uni. I'd also send over transports with probe teams to nab tech from the Uni.

As for the tech trading we can mention that we can steal those techs and/or they are not valued highly. I suspect the Spartans have acquired most of their techs via espionage or trading, so we could acquire those techs ourselves.

If we want to be really risky, we could try to induce one of the AIs (hopefully Yang) to declare war on the Spartans by bribery (unlikely to succeed) or try to do an illegal probe action and frame (also unlikely) the Spartans.

Also if we want to be evil, we can agree to research I.I. then build the CDF once we get it (leading to war of course).

We might even want to consider switching out of free market once an assault begins.

bleh :P We should ask for a time extension on this turn.

Last edited by arginine on 11-12-2004 at 05:40

	11-12-2004 12:09									#7
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We have another 24 hours. I know I said I'd do the turn today, but it'll probably have to be tomorrow, in about 12 hours.

	11-12-2004 13:32									#8
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Feel free to delay. The slower the turns go during the holidays, the better.

	12-12-2004 01:59									#9
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Turn's posted. I sent Sparta 4 ec's... that takes care of the 50ec attorney fees. I'm not sure we want to send them anything next year, but I figured 4 ec's was a small price to pay for not tipping our hand on that. Plus, with people not very active, I didn't want to unilaterally end relations with Sparta.

EDIT: The 4 ec's were sent, but that was an error on my part. I forgot we already paid for the PK commlink in full. They still owe us 15 ec's for attorney fees. We can take it out next year and the year after that.

Attachment: acdg3-morgans-2151_endturn.zip
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Last edited by jtsisyoda on 12-12-2004 at 02:13

	12-12-2004 02:11									#10
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Some info on the Hive Garrisons...

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	12-12-2004 02:12									#11
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Our base operations...

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	12-12-2004 02:15									#12
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More of Spartan territory was uncovered. Unfortunately, our 'Gator Boat will be detected by their rover when they open the turn.

Attachment: 2151_east.jpg
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	12-12-2004 02:16									#13
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Nothing new to the west...

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	12-12-2004 02:19									#14
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Some calculations...

18 bases, Demo/FM/Wealth, 40/20/40 econ/psych/labs, effectively 60/20/40 w/PEG. Average energy/base: 11. Multiply by effective allocation and base count: 120 econ, 80 labs.

27 bases, Demo/FM/Wealth, 30/50/20 econ/psych/labs, effectively 45/50/20 w/PEG. Average energy/base: 11. Multiply by effective allocation and base count: 135 econ, 60 labs.

24 bases, Demo/Green/Wealth, 1 police/base, 50/0/50 econ/psych/labs, effectively 75/0/50 (alternatively, 100/0/0 for an effective 150/0/0). Average energy/base: 7. Multiply by effective allocation and base count: 125 econ, 85 labs (100% econ gives 250 econ).

If PTS converts a super-drone into a regular worker, and not just a basic drone, then we could do 27 bases with Demo/Green/Wealth, with 140 econ and 95 labs.

So, basically, we gain very little energy by building more bases with Demo/FM/Wealth or Dem/Green/Wealth. We do gain minerals, but a crawler on a volcano mine would gain more.

	12-12-2004 03:12									#15
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If we PTSed, I'd try to get a bunch of size 2 bases. The 3rd person has to work a let productive farm anyways. Are there any penalties for letting a person starve?

	12-12-2004 07:45									#16
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Since the Spartans presumably stole all of their tech why don't we steal tech too. Probe the uni., turn our tech down now and become filthy rich!

Ideally we'd have an odd number of energy going to Econ in each base (5 or 7) to take advantage of the rounding up.

	12-12-2004 09:18									#17
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Our enemies do not have unlimited resources(maybe yang...) so we shouldn't be too worried. Instead of using laser skim ships to defend us entirely, keep a probe team at sea, and grab any cruiser transport that comes our way. It does not look like they have a costal base within 8 squares of us.

On going to 27 bases: Will we not have social pysch soon? a rec commons controls 2 super drones, so we can lower psych as we build these.

	12-12-2004 10:30									#18
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Well, you can't bribe stacked units (I don't know if a transport counts). Also, being in fundy doubles the cost of probing (helping them nicely)

A rec commons in EVERY base?
4 * 9 * 2 * 27 = 72 * 27 = 1944 EC

We should talk about strategy soon now that we have the PEG and the Spartans have infiltration now and they also have the CN and appear to be after the MCC as well

	12-12-2004 22:05									#19
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They seem to attack the Uni at the moment (see Phalanx special edition)... and I doubt they will starting a second war soon.

What would be the benefit of RecTanks in every base compared to RecCommons?

	13-12-2004 04:14									#20
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If this does prove to be true, it will certainly make things interesting. The UoP is a jucier target than we are so it would make sense for the Spartans to invade them first. It would be an oportunity to get leverage on the Uni. Remember, Uni. real estate prices are half of planet's norm.

	13-12-2004 04:31									#21
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is there any way we could aide UoP?

	13-12-2004 04:33									#22
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by the way, nice work continuing to kick ass in the demo game. you have most of Domai's territory now, and a little more expansion room. also you have satellites. still the angels have done a pop boom and have some territory. too bad you can't gift satellites.

	13-12-2004 08:58									#23
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Aid the UoP without being detected by the Spartans? Considering that we're both infiltrated (I'd bet they've been infiltrated them too) no. We could give units, tech, etc. I don't think it would do much good. If we wanted to nab the Spartans we'd get Yang to go to war with the Spartans.

	13-12-2004 11:16									#24
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so then can we land some probe teams and grab all we can from them before they get overrun?

	13-12-2004 14:53									#25
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Not good, not good at all.

We need to ascertain if they're going to wipe us off the map.
If they are, we need to start planning.

I think that probing does buy whole transports, but we should be wary of probing everything we see. Try using the V key to see what occupies the square and we may be able to see what's in each Spartan 'Invasion-in-a-can'.

Even with fundy, a transport full of high morale ex-Spartan troops could make good sacrifices or improve our might, and we could try and bully Yang into covering us. As an aside, we should also consider going PS at some point, to try and get on Yang's good side.

-- CT #endgame

	14-12-2004 23:52									#26
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The simple fact is that we simply DON'T know what the Spartans are up to. They are building a war machine (a totally expecting thing for the Spartans). The question is: "What is the war machine going to do?".

I'd personally like to have a Spartan War machine shoving our commerce on the people of planet. Both our factions have desires of what the other can provide. How we will keep one faction from dominating the other remains to be seen. One of my aims would be for us to buy Spartan arms. Having finished my recent obligations, I am going to investigate the posibility of such an 'alliance' and its details.

quote: so then can we land some probe teams and grab all we can from them before they get overrun?

Are you refering to using probe teams on the University? I was refering too nabbing tech. It can't hurt to grab the prime real estate near our capital for future cities. I'd like to have a pet Zak with his vote on the Planetary Council.

	15-12-2004 05:30									#27
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I mean tech, having a base there lets them probe us in the event of hostilities.

	15-12-2004 23:23									#28
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True, and make us vulerable to a land attack. Having a strong peace agreement that we would have faith in (and have good reason to do so) would save us a lot on defense spending.

	15-12-2004 23:25									#29
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I'll look at the turn soon...