11-12-2004 15:56									#1
	What do we do now? Got spare money?

With the war being lost and our empire undoubtedly swept away from the world (we only had four cities defended, including the counter-fort), we have to decide what to do next.

If GS decided to keep cities they've taken, we may try taking some back... but whatever we do, it's over in few turns. Not sure whether it's worth our time to delay the end.

As stated before, I am against seeking any asylum. I see no point in remaining in a game that has been lost.

One solution that would be acceptable for me, would be to hand over all our remaining cities to GS, letting them kill the last one next turn. Honestly, what they achieved in this game is truly impressive. Out of all teams, they deserve to win most, IMHO.

	11-12-2004 22:37									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I do not think ND would've been the cause of our downfall... Legopolis clearly fell on GS's turn, and ND hasn't even played yet. I'm honestly baffeled as to how they could've done it...

	11-12-2004 23:18									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I agree with no asylum. No point in lingering on. I say we just hole up in our few remaining cities and let them pound away. Take no real strategy by us, and we don't really need to make it any easier on them to win the game

	12-12-2004 02:51									#4
	Re: What do we do now? Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by vondrack What do we do now?

Give up. Abandon all cities (maybe gift some to Vox: Invoice, Kloreepville, Panama, Port Hammer, if they still exist, that is) and let GS or GoW take the last one.

Game over

	12-12-2004 03:04									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I agree with no asylum.

I don't think we should abandon everything just yet. Let's see what the situation is next turn and if we can make things a little more bloody. Hole up where that seems best (though with their artillery now roaming Lego railways, I'm not sure where that will be best)

One thing I'd consider abandoning is wonders. For instance, Jackson hasn't fallen yet. If it's still ours when we get the turn, I think we should consider abandoning it to prevent Magellan's from falling to GoW or GS.

Also, Vox is vulnerable now. GoW & GS's intentions are unclear there, but if they want to seek asylum with ND in case of attack, they had better start talking to them now.

	12-12-2004 03:26									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Yeah, once the save arrives, we shall "take our stock" and see what we can still do before getting buried for good.

If at all possible, we shall make someone bleed some more.

Let's die fighting!

	12-12-2004 04:15									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Why should we hit them hard before getting burried? In a way, it'd be a bigger blow if we let them with their current military. They are not prepared for a post-war situation like that.

This unexpected end would create a truly unbalanced world. ND would have to face a huge army they didn't expect. They will pay for not helping us. The GS + GoW alliance will breake in pieces in seconds, and they will jump at each others throat.

This will be our true revenge.

PS If anything, I'd agree with another attack against GoW. This would truly unbalance the world.

Let them eat their own pooh !

	12-12-2004 04:29									#8
	Put an end to popups!

That's not a bad idea. Let's wreck the world's balance.



I guess I should have another beer...

	12-12-2004 07:15									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I had wished that we could win this game, but I guess those dreams are but gone now. I think though untill we can see the save their is no point guess what we can do untill we see the damage. I also dont even know how our capital fell. I will only believe it when I see the save, but I assume that they are not lieing, what would be the point?

Who knows, even if Legopolis fell maybe we can salavage something from what is left. We cannot assume anything untill we can see the save.

I suggest though if we decide to give up to gift all out cities to some one else.

	12-12-2004 07:18									#10
	Put an end to popups!

As far as what I wil do, I will go maybe to playing PBEM games here on Apolyton. But I did learn a lot about the tricks in Civ3 from this game. Before I never knew about combat settlers and the like. So it was not all a waste, and it was fun while it lasted.

	12-12-2004 10:37									#11
	Put an end to popups!

Gifting cities to Vox isn't a bad idea, though we have no idea whether they'll be allowed to keep them.

While I like the idea of getting GoW & GS to go for each other's throats, we have no idea if it will work. And I certainly don't want to try to mess things up for ND, the power who didn't join in. I think attacking someone's stack is the best way to go, assuming we have anything to attack with. (If we don't, we could try holing up, assuming the majority of our infantry can be gathered for a last stand.)

	12-12-2004 11:44									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www I had wished that we could win this game, but I guess those dreams are but gone now. I think though untill we can see the save their is no point guess what we can do untill we see the damage. I also dont even know how our capital fell. I will only believe it when I see the save, but I assume that they are not lieing, what would be the point?

Trust me, Jack, it can be done. I have seen it done several times - and it was the nightmare that we were trying to defend against. Extreme combat settling is one of the deadliest strategiest in human hands. And at the same time, one of the worst design flaws in Civ3.

In this game, a 2-year effort was wasted in an eyeblink because of combat settlers (and because we moved three ships one tile further than we should have).

Oh, well.

The damage done to us this turn is lethal (and GoW is only to play their turn yet, undoubtedly adding to it).

	12-12-2004 16:14									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have a wild idea. Let's call it Operation Geneve

It is based on the fact that GS and GoW wanted to deny us the victory, which already happened. Which means that if we abandon most of our cities, they will lose the goal of the war. Why would they sacrifice their army against an enemy which doesn't represent a danger anymore?

The plan:

- we gift our western cities to Vox. Hopefully GS and GoW wouldn't mind, as Vox doesn't represent a danger for them. We swear not to take them back. Ever.

- we would abandon everything in the N, and E

- we would keep a small core (well, as much as possible) in the S, E and S-E.

- we would stop attacking the GS+GoW forces. We could even disband some of our troops; it doesn't matter anyway.

- we would not oppose if they build cities on Legos

- Finally, we would do all this with one single purpose only: to help Vox win the game!

- Vox starts immeditely a wonder prebuild in Kloreepvile or Panama.

- Vox builds the UN !!!

- The opponent would be probably GoW. We vote for Vox. That's 2 votes already. Maybe we could convince RP to vote for Vox as well. A small team might like the idea of another small team winning the game, against all odds. Togas and Arnelos are the like who might a twist like this. Maybe we could convince even one more team to vote for Vox or at least abstain. Maybe ND. It'd be difficult, but they have no chances whatsoever to win this game anyway, especially if we let GS and GoW with their huge army. Too bad Darekill left them Even for GS it should be difficult to choose, as the should vote for GoW to keep the game going

A small team winning the game would save as less as it is left from idea of CIVILIZATIONS, which this game was supposed to be about. We all would sleep better, I think, and our defeat would be less bitter

	12-12-2004 16:20									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hurray and if this was Alpha Centuri, we would win anywaygreat!!!

	12-12-2004 16:25									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

Would it be possible? Would Vox be able to build the UN? They do not have the tech yet - and we will have much troubles delivering Radio...

I agree with giving our cities close to Voxtavia to Vox. That's definitely what we should do. But for the rest... I still have to think this over.

But there is more fighting will in me than yesterday...

	12-12-2004 16:45									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

We still field a large army, I think we should try and reclaim Legopolis (depending what GOW does but I can assume not much just land the extra tanks). We still have albiene and Dye fields and fort Stanwix. We still have heaps of infantry which could be used and artillery and Gs will have is forces all split up ainto several stacks. Whats the possablity of stealing technologly? I say the war ain't over tillit's over. C'mon there must be ways around this.

Last edited by rendelnep on 12-12-2004 at 16:55

	12-12-2004 21:24									#17
	Remove this text

Well, here's a crazy idea... we could try and make peace with GoW and ask for their help in driving GS back into the sea. I mean, we're already crippled beyond being in the game-winning position, so beating on us is only going to cost them units they could be using against the real threat.

Who knows, though. They might be too obsessed with the idea of taking us out of the game entirely. It's worth a shot, though...

	12-12-2004 21:35									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well, I took it upon myself to try and stir the diplomatic fires, and I apologize for not running it by everyone first, but, honestly, what do we have to lose at this point

Anyway, here's what I sent to MZ:

quote: Warmonger Zen, As you may well note, the nation of Legoland has been invaded recently by yourselves and the so-called "Stormchickens." Consequently, you may also be aware that the Stormchickens recently conquered half of our empire in one fell swoop. While of course this is probably a good thing from your invading perspective, ask yourself if it is really a good thing in the long term? Your forces stand outside Ft. Stanwix, poised to attack. But what will this really accomplish? You will likely take heavy losses, and the Stormchickens will take advantage of your sacrifice and conquer more lands for themselves. There has got to be a better way. In this time of war, let us not forget that alliances can shift, and fights don't have to continue just because people think they should. Lego has been hurt badly, and our position in the world greatly diminished. Do you wish to see the same thing happen to your own empire merely for the chance at kicking us while we are down? -ZX

	12-12-2004 21:49									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Well, here's a crazy idea... we could try and make peace with GoW and ask for their help in driving GS back into the sea.

Zargon, what for ??

	12-12-2004 21:52									#20
	Remove this text

Hey, that's a great message, Zargon!

(I like it even more, considering how much DeepO's post irked me - Jesus, they thought we did not expect them to use the empty transports to attack! And they knew they could have taken Abilene! ...)

I believe we no longer need to run things as tight as we used to, especially diplo-wise... getting out of this **** can only happen through a miracle - and a miracle can happen spontaneously while we do just about anything.

So let's wheel and deal!

	12-12-2004 21:53									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I have a wild idea. Let's call it Operation Geneve It is based on the fact that GS and GoW wanted to deny us the victory, which already happened. Which means that if we abandon most of our cities, they will lose the goal of the war. Why would they sacrifice their army against an enemy which doesn't represent a danger anymore? The plan: - we gift our western cities to Vox. Hopefully GS and GoW wouldn't mind, as Vox doesn't represent a danger for them. We swear not to take them back. Ever. - we would abandon everything in the N, and E - we would keep a small core (well, as much as possible) in the S, E and S-E. - we would stop attacking the GS+GoW forces. We could even disband some of our troops; it doesn't matter anyway. - we would not oppose if they build cities on Legos - Finally, we would do all this with one single purpose only: to help Vox win the game! - Vox starts immeditely a wonder prebuild in Kloreepvile or Panama. - Vox builds the UN !!! - The opponent would be probably GoW. We vote for Vox. That's 2 votes already. Maybe we could convince RP to vote for Vox as well. A small team might like the idea of another small team winning the game, against all odds. Togas and Arnelos are the like who might a twist like this. Maybe we could convince even one more team to vote for Vox or at least abstain. Maybe ND. It'd be difficult, but they have no chances whatsoever to win this game anyway, especially if we let GS and GoW with their huge army. Too bad Darekill left them Even for GS it should be difficult to choose, as the should vote for GoW to keep the game going A small team winning the game would save as less as it is left from idea of CIVILIZATIONS, which this game was supposed to be about. We all would sleep better, I think, and our defeat would be less bitter

I like your plan. I would like try it. It would be so great if we could keep GS and GOW form winning. They must pay for what they have done to legoland

	12-12-2004 21:54									#22
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Zargon, what for ??

Just for the heck of it.

Just to show them one last time they do not have a patent on reason.

I'm in.

	12-12-2004 21:55									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

I also like your plan ZargonX. Anything that we can do to prevent GS and GOW form winning I am for.

	12-12-2004 22:00									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

BTW... those two plans do not exclude each other, do they?

	12-12-2004 22:57									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: BTW... those two plans do not exclude each other, do they?

Nope! And that's the best part

	13-12-2004 01:03									#26
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Nope, they don't.

And good idea Zargon. I've been skeptical of trying to talk to GS, but GoW won't have nearly so much trouble with a backstab if they think it's in their best interest.

	13-12-2004 02:54									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

DeepO...

I don't think he comprehends the idea that combat settlers aren't brilliant strategy... and I'm not going to try and discuss it with him anymore...

	13-12-2004 08:20									#28
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, I guess we got MZ's answer, despite his not even bothering to respond to my PM. Jackass.

	13-12-2004 08:39									#29
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Well, I guess we got MZ's answer, despite his not even bothering to respond to my PM. Jackass.

ND sends save: 11-12 17:32

Zargon sends message: 12-12 10:35

It's possible the attack began before you even sent it. It seems MZ _is_ GoW at the moment, after all.

	13-12-2004 09:06									#30
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Well, he said he wasn't sending the save until this evening, which is when he made the post. I'm just going on the prior track record I have with him in regards to responding to diplomacy by ignoring the person