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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:17
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Excuse me if I happen to post a post on what's already been discussed, but I think its an important enough issue.
After looking at scans of the current graphics of Civ IV, I sat there and thought to myself: "Its terribly bright, and cheerfull. It has silly little text features. I should probably grump about those... But I can't resist.... I love it!" Why do I love it? Because it captures the Civilization attitude. The one with a small pinch of salt added to any strategic decision, which you rarely see in todays games.
I also read that the streamlined interface may lack such features as city screen, throne room and so on. Ridding of the throne room is quite a good idea - While it was an interesting idea - frankly, it NEVER worked for me.
But not everything can go. I hope though that the city screen and science screen are not totally dissolved. City screen (should be combined with the "preview" in this 3D version I guess) should obviously be streamlined, but only the most basic and urgent features should be exported to the wide-zoom version of the game. I want to zoom in on my cities, and see them. Its fun.
The science manager in Civ III for instance, was too plain and streamlined. It was no longer fun... It felt like a "ok so we discovered sometrhing but its not important - GO BACK TO WAR!!" I had to click on it to tell me what my invention does, and there was no movie or something. I liked how in Civ I it was a gameplay experience - new technologies weren't just a small scrolling message - they were a whole journey - with explanations about its function, requirements and with a picture scientists coming to your palace and presenting it to you.
Obviously you need to have an alternate shorter version to use after the first 5 games you play. But come on people - its not a silly wargame like any other RPG, where you click on the "upgrade unit" button, and want to know when its over. Its "civilization". Its GRAND. When my nation discovers something - its huge! Its a scientific revolution. Can you imagine? We discovered the wheel or pottery. Its la total revolution!
I want a discovery to be a celebration - its the first time someone on earth has discovered canons! (I would also like to be reminded, even on the simple alternate screen, that it needs resources to build and how much it costs.)
Obviously this also means I want wonder movies and wonder graphics (as an alternate option). All of these things are exactly what sets Civilization apart from Empire Earth in its core! Its the grand historic scope of things. You can "enjoy" your civilization and feel like a grand leader. Not just rush through the ages to build a nuclear bomb / fusion propelled spaceship. This also goes for things like large grainy yellowish maps showing a flat and inexact world map.
I also loved the "best cities" screen and world statistics. Obviously my literacy and longevity and road length statistics did little to push me forward towards TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION!!!111!!!!. But it was part of feeling like a real empire, and striving to be first in those silly meaningless statistics which will not necessarily allow me to send a spaceship in 15 AD... I loved the different silly lists compiled by different sages and historical writers. I loved meeting my advisors every 500 years (but eventuall turned them off). I loved that they were very tongue in cheek, and not all serious like in other games. In Civ I - I loved the silly newspaper clippings that would appear just like that for no reason. Just like I liked the We love the X day! It gave me something to strive for, besides trying to slaughter my enemies, which I was already used to.
Talking to other nations also requires and improvement and a whole screen in my opinion. In civ 1 I loved talking to the russians. I feared them. Staling with his advisors were pretty scary, and I feared his evil grin. I was a small emperor of a silly african empire. He was stalin.
My point is - that there's a certain feeling to Civilization that should be kept. A feeling of grand scale and of history unfolding infront of your eyes. And at the same time lots of tongue in cheek action. Which is why I liked the silly advice text on the screenshots I've seen. Those two advice texts gave me great hope that Civ IV is going in the right direction.
And after I've badgered you enough with my long speech - I want to start a list of "fun" things that make you love civ and give it a different feel from the rest of the games. (even though most of these features eventually end up turned off).
- Make discovering a tech and building a wonder a significant event - invite scientists to my throne room to explain about it. give a certain city some sort of prize for giving the last several science points needed for making the discovery.
- Make changing ages meaningful. Add a free tech. Change the map and interface style. Give a short "golden period".
- Keep historical features like newspapers, best cities lists, non-gameplay statistics,
- Keep diplomacy special. Involve talking to the leaders themselves - not just emissaries. Make a special screen for that where you see your / other nations throne room, the advisors passing notes or whispering in his ear. Make it feel as if I'm part of a large meeting between kings.
- actually divide dimplomacy into large scale meetings (like above) and smaller meetings with emissaries, where you could make smaller deals (pull out troops, make limited trade, science, map deals).
- Keep advisors. Make them useful, and perhaps find ways of give them automated tasks (just like you give govenors). At least let them help your decision making - I want to tell my war advisor that I want a defensive strategy, so he'll remind me to fortify units and build city walls, instead of reminding me to build agressive units. Or If I tell him I want to make war, I want him to suggest to build roads and X agressive units, and perhaps make an alliance with a neighbouring civilization.
- Make regime changes and revolutions meaningful (change throne room graphics, show some "revolution video, a "revolution successful creen".
- Make a fuss about discovering new large continents or for clearing most of the world map.
- Make a fuss about the first time you meet a civilization.
- Make some fuss about starting wars and ending them. Show me a screen with "our artists documenting our great combat achievements" and another screen showing my people celebrating victory / peace. Imagine Julius ceasar coming home victorious, or that ww2 has ended. A simply "war is over" note is not enough.
Obviously, veteran palyers should be able to see a less intrusive version, and everything should have an "skip" button functionaity.
So what do you think?
What in civilization makes you feel like a grand king with history unfolding infront of you? As opposed to feeling like a warlord waiting for more units and resources, in most other strategy games...
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Ephesus
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Civ 2 Military advisor was an alright guy. I loved it.
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MiketheYounger
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One small thing I like from CIVIII is the fidgeting motions the units do, 'specially the pikmen with hayfever
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LordofMysteries
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MERRY CHRISTMAS!May all you civs put down your spears and stop harassing those poor tanks and share the gift of love.
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LordofMysteries
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Civilization games are great because they give you a taste of being special.You can be a humoungous and mighty empire, or a small and sophistacated republic, or afairly sized and wealthy democracy.
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Brent
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quote:
- Make changing ages meaningful. Add a free tech. Change the map and interface style.
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I hate it when GalCiv does that.
quote:
- Keep advisors. Make them useful, and perhaps find ways of give them automated tasks (just like you give govenors)
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Yes, good idea.
quote:
- Make a fuss about discovering new large continents or for clearing most of the world map.
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Yes. 51%? Everything not counting landlocked seas?
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11-12-2004 17:54
) SMAC. I liked the voiceovers when secret projects were completed, or technologies researched. Sure, there is always the written text, but to hear it was quite a different experience. A very good one. 
I second that motion, and will push this nuclear device here if I do not get a third.
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