14-12-2004 05:16									#1
	Dyes to Die for ... Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'd like to get a sense of the Senate as to whether the Dyes between Egypt and Carthage would be worth looking into. Egypt, as discussed elsewhere, can be easily encouraged to support us in our war with Carthage, and the Dyes 7774 of Abydos would both help limit Egyptian expansion so we have a solid empire in Carthage if/when that comes, and give us a luxury cheaply (at least temporarily). As long as we have peace with Macedon Egypt and Persia, we get the road connection; we can build a harbor eventually to give us a sea connection.

It would be a cheap 3rd luxury. Might or might not be maintainable, but we can cheaply settle it, so no big loss if we lose it; not build major infrastructure; and can build/buy significant defenses (remember 3k gold in the bank!) so Carthage would have to use a major chunk of offensive power to take it. It's quite a distance from Carthage, 10+ squares, so it would not be a big danger right away I don't believ.

	14-12-2004 08:38									#2
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Send in the garrisons, you never know what could happen.

	14-12-2004 08:55									#3
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Just to clarify, the first option is intended to mean "send several defensive units along" while the second and third are both intended to mean "send a defensive unit or so along" - not undefended entirely.

	14-12-2004 14:58									#4
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Rome has a weak navy. No worries as we can expand over land. Hence, it seems more wise not to take any naval actions that needs Rome to have units in ships between turns.

	14-12-2004 16:32									#5
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That's why I'm thinking just a citizen and a garrison in the ship. Not a significant loss if we lose it... and a huge payoff if we don't.

	14-12-2004 21:19									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Won't the Persians offer a reasonable price for trading Dyes once we have a spare Spice from taking the Carhegain islands?

	14-12-2004 22:30									#7
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option 1


A most daring and adventurous undertaking Emporer Snoopy may the Gods smile on this venture, good luck

	14-12-2004 23:15									#8
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I say go for it, with force.

The Persians will become our enemy sooner or later, so having a source for ourselves is good.

	15-12-2004 00:45									#9
	Support Apolyton

Actually, there are two paths to victory that don't involve fighting the Persians at all. But I'm not saying that we keep trading with the Persians for Dye forever, just trade the extra Spice once we get it for Dye for 20 turns and look at the situation about 10 turns from when it expires.

I rather not have a lot of military units transported across the seas where they can be sunk by Galleys until the enemy Galley count is reduced.

Even buying a city from Egypt is kind of risky until we come out of anarchy, since it's going to need a Legion III cash rushed every two turns until it has a large enough stack to deter the Carhagian war elephants.

----
Paths not involving fighting the Persians:

1. Annex Spainish Carthage
2. Annex Celts on the mainland
3. Fill in that large gap between former Carthagian and former Celts in Spain.
4. Annex Macedona
5. Fill in any remaining open territory in Balkins

[3 and 4 can take place at the same time]

6A. Annex North African Carthagians
7A. Fill in gap south of Carhigans in North Africa.

OR

6B. Annex Goths
7B, Fill in mainland Europe to the Scythian border

8. Win

Attacking the Persians would be 6C. Annex half the Persian empire, starting in Turkey.

Last edited by joncnunn on 15-12-2004 at 00:56

	15-12-2004 01:07									#10
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I understand the different ways to glory for Rome, and I agree, that we don't have to fight Persia to do it. It's far, and even if any active war happens, we still have time.

But I'm not convinced the Persians think the same way about not attacking us. Come to think of it, I'm not convinced any other empire will just leave us alone. That's why I think we are in best condition with our own luxuries, as soon as possible.

The problem of safe sea passage is a real one, true. But, I trust our new Emperor can handle that.

	15-12-2004 08:31									#11
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indeed

	15-12-2004 09:27									#12
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I'm pretty sure the Persians weren't offering dyes. I'll check - I may have missed it - but the AI in this game, demigod or whatever or not, seems to 'forget' to road its luxuries. Egypt in the SP game I played a while back had a couple good luxuries to sell - nothing here... same with Scythians i think, or one of them. Maybe I let them grow too much - but I remember getting 2-3 lux in trade, and I was Macedonia so Persia didn't factor into it...

	15-12-2004 16:22									#13
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Let's build a city there. It's a fertile land and we'll have a city capable of producing legions in no time.

	15-12-2004 20:27									#14
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The Persians start with at least 2 Dyes already roaded.

We in fact traded for the spare one on turn 1. Unless it was sold
off to another AI after it lapsed, it's adviable.

Persian AI doesn't build many Galleys. (Just enough to be a serious threat to Create and a potiential threat to empty Libya and a strong threat to Egypt.) If we avoid having cities in those areas, they aren't a real military threat until we conquer Greece.

	17-12-2004 12:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus option 1 A most daring and adventurous undertaking Emporer Snoopy may the Gods smile on this venture, good luck

We may need to sacrifice some bulls this week to assist in these endeavours

	18-12-2004 06:10									#16
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Take what is rightfully ours and garrison it

	18-12-2004 07:50									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

wow, here the verdict of the senate is quite clear... cool Garrisons it will be