15-12-2004 09:57									#1
	A vote Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hi all,

If you were able to influence what is essentially the last chance for the future of the Civ series, which would be the area you'd most like the programmers to concentrate on?;

a) Government types
b) Diplomacy aspects
c) Military aspects
d) Terrain management
e) Cheating AI

	15-12-2004 11:07									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The diplomatic model.
It should be possible to behave in any diplomatic way you want. Right now the choices are too much pre-defined.

	15-12-2004 11:28									#3
	Got spare money?

Hi mate,

When I posted the poll, it didn't work, the title should of course read "given a choice".

I most want the diplomacy improved as well, within the existing Civ model, if they change the model, not the essence of the game, then......

	15-12-2004 17:34									#4
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Diplomatic model. But governments are important too IMHO.

	15-12-2004 21:35									#5
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Of those choices, I choose A: Government Types. But I wish customization was an option.

	21-12-2004 02:10									#6
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AI behaviour.

This seems to be the hardest part to code properly. With the game designing lengthening as games are rushed to market followed by the inevitable Parade of Patches (POP) TM, it's tough for the AI to keep up with the human and utilize the features (especially new one introduced in a patch) properly and effectively.

Armies and Marines for two examples of AI not using units effectively.

	21-12-2004 04:04									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

All game design decisions (except MP) will be made with the AI in mind anyway, so I'd vote for a better AI, so the game isnt made simple so the AI can keep up.

	21-12-2004 04:54									#8
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AI hands down. The really bonheaded things the AI does is where the suspension of disbelief is lost for me in Civ. But realities of game production and the mass audience conspire against a good AI which is very difficult to get in any case.

	21-12-2004 05:11									#9
	Remove this text

No banana option

Turn speed

	23-12-2004 13:41									#10
	Support Apolyton

Mark.

I think the programmers dream of all humans playing each other on the net, via the graphics they spent months creating, within the shell of a game title.

They like graphics, they hate programming AI- Sid obviously loved it- I'd rather go to his school anyday.

Toby

	23-12-2004 20:39									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Military aspects... Civ 3 combat sucks the big one... I'd like to see a Rome Total War style of combat... you can either simulate a battle, or fight it out on the map. THAT is what Civ 4 needs.

	23-12-2004 20:39									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

oh BTW, I'm boycotting this poll because there is no banana option!

	24-12-2004 02:01									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

By far the diplomatic option, for in a game- what gives it the most replayability is what can be made of it with other players- and that, quite simply is the diplomatic stage.

the more chances for 'smart' interaction, the better.

This also allows for replayability at the MP level in addition to the SP level with gifts, etc. and partial alliacnes.

Indeed, the victory conditions could be revamped and in modern ages "new world orders" and "UN's" and "EU's" and "ASEAN" federations can work together to prosper in areas that, with a hoped increase in the number of civs easily playable on a board, can simulate a real world.

Very little would be need to be done to 'remake the civ game' while also 'making it better'

there is no need for an overhaul- just more of the same but with a twist- that's all that's needed to sell a sequel. As long as it works, is innovative, and isn't buggy and adds flavour to the world while not forcing people down a path of complexity, it would do well!

-dc

	24-12-2004 02:32									#14
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AI by far. A challenging, intelligent AI makes a Civ game fun to me. And a good AI is what I want to see in Civ4, provided other stuff is not worse than in Civ3, though realistically, I hope all concepts will improve.

	24-12-2004 07:37									#15
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Hi Toby

quote: Originally posted by Toby Rowe I think the programmers dream of all humans playing each other on the net, via the graphics they spent months creating, within the shell of a game title.

I think some of the programmers would like to do a really good AI, but it just doesn't fit within the realities of the biz. The eye candy certainly does help a lot to sell games. It's largely wasted on me. I'd take Civ 1 graphics with a great AI over civ4 any day!

	24-12-2004 18:57									#16
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AI is my serious choice, however I voted banana because . . . oh, wait, no I didn't--you didn't give me the option!

	24-12-2004 19:34									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The five topics in the post do not quite match the vote options. I will describe more then, I voted AI behavior, though I would avoid cheating AI. While some bonusses to the AI are good - it is better to be defeated by the AI having as close abilities as possible to human player. I would see very elaborate AI in the future game.

Second goes diplomatic model - very close to AI actually. I would see more options for human-human diplo

Third - military aspect - CUSTOMIZABLE units as in SMAC/X

	25-12-2004 07:28									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Mart,

Sorry mate- I didn't think the poll had worked, so my list should have been the poll choices- but I did say that up at the top!

Shogun,

Surely it's easier to provide scenery and then let humans use their brain for AI (Unfortunately they will lose a lot of money as the idea doesn't appeal to many- 2 hours, post work before a wife complains, even though I fit neither, but agree!

Today whilst plying through the endless cycle of cleaning pollution I got wondering about what Civ4 might bring, as this one is the worst one. like the Railroad Tycoon version is- I imagined having a settler unit in 3D looking towards a mountain range once London began- If they do it in 3D having X number of cities will be meaningless, as the defence of the (fewer) cities will be given attention- and at the end of the day, having 125 isn't fun, it's simply necessary to dominate.

Darkcloud- Diplomacy- I want real diplomacy- I can currently put 8 attacking units beside the capital city of a nation and 4 against the other city they still have and then offer "our troops....." etc baloney choice and they still refuse! Next go the naton ceases to exist.

Please X company- real al- weird- computer locked up.

Anyway, I wish all a happy Christmas- Christrian or not.

	25-12-2004 07:47									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Sava Military aspects... Civ 3 combat sucks the big one... I'd like to see a Rome Total War style of combat... you can either simulate a battle, or fight it out on the map. THAT is what Civ 4 needs.

No way... you make a game strategic like Civ and tactical like an RTS and you get two AIs that stink.

	25-12-2004 09:40									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi mate,

A better combat system I'd go with also, but I think we all know thats' "said as done"; it's about 0% chance it won't be changed- Civ 2 introduced damage/death in units, Civ 3 ignored it and we all thought it daft. If we can view Civ 2 to Civ 4 whilst ignoring Civ 3 that would be good, I'm sure the programmers are ignoring Civ 3 and looking at Civ 1 and 2.

Toby

	25-12-2004 10:42									#21
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Trip.

I'm coming round to the idea of 3D- actually looking at a distant mountain range, and the plains before you- I guess it might be no more that 15 cities each, but could be fun- I see it that they either listen to the improvements we want over Civ 2 or they change the game radically, but it will be one- and certainly one chap on this board wished a radical change, whilst another wanted radical changes regarding grahics. Being the greedy git I am, I'd like both on a single CD- classic and 3D.

Happy Xmas all.

A special Xmas to anyone living in a society that is too afraid to allow you to legally be on the internet, that free medium that tries to sell you stuff every 5 minutes.....

	25-12-2004 13:01									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

AI, if the AI is better, the whole game will be better, simple as that.