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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by ravagon on 12-02-2000 09:47 PM
This isn't an easy question as both have their strong points. Moo had a much greater scope and a better (IMHO anyway) production/tech development system that Moo2 was never able to match. This was also "The one that started it all" and should be judged as such, similarly to civ/civ2. [quote]
When you mentioned scope, do you mean the size of the Universe? I can't remember how big the one is in MoO now (gotta play that again soon  ). Though I guess if the Universe is smaller in MoO 2 the reason is multiple planets per star system.
As for the production/research system, I agree with you. I much prefer the system used in MoO, where there are multiple queues for research, and amount of reseach an empire could do is directly tied in with its production capabilities.
I can't tell if MoO is the one that started the space 3X games. SSG's Reach for the Stars came out earlier...
[quote]Originally posted by ravagon on 12-02-2000 09:47 PM
Moo2 OTOH had a far superior combat system, diplomatic model, and had much more detail with the professions for individual colonists ala civ/colonization, multiple planets per system, increased starship design options and detailed colony management, not to mention custom race design.
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Combat system: yes, MoO 2 has a better one. Though I miss some of the really cool weapon systems we could have in MoO, such as the Blckhole Generator I also like the way that older starships can be refitted instead of being scraped. This lets you conserve resources and keep the experienced crews.
Starship design: Hmm, can't tell which one is better. While the addition of freighter fleets is decisive, I found the one-size-fits-all colony ships leave much to be desired. I much rather have the older way of adding a colony base to a ship, and advanced colony base types require research.
Outposts: a step in the right direction, though I can't tell why outposts aren't installations in deep space, a la Star Trek. That would make a whole lot more sense.
quote:
Originally posted by ravagon on 12-02-2000 09:47 PM
Overall I'd have to say Moo2 came out on top but only just and mostly because in Moo I wound up on the receiving end of 32000 enemy heavies just once too often! 
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Speaking of heavies what you think of the addition of Titans and Doom Stars to MoO 2? IIRC the biggest ones in MoO are battleships. At any rate, even though the older game has a lower resolution I miss its colourful designs of ships. They simply look cooler
Any thoughts on the leaders in MoO 2? IMO they just add to the randomness. I wish there were a way to disable them. 
[This message has been edited by Urban Ranger (edited December 03, 2000).]
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ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:13
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UR,
I think the (max) size of the universe is the same in both games but Moo1 basically had a bigger feel to it. More ships, higher production, increased finances to maintain larger fleets, etc. I thought that the limit of one of each building in a colony in Moo2 was just too restrictive.
W.r.t. the starship design system, Moo2 was light years better. Firing arcs, weapon specials (penetrating, enveloping, point def., eccm, etc.) and the slots for special equipment increased from 3 to 8 made a phenomenal difference and gave just so many more options IMHO. Not to mention the upgrade facility. 
How many people remember having to scrap hundreds of ships in Moo just so as to enable a new design, and having a hole in their defensive lines until the replacements started coming in?
Then we have the ability for marines to capture/raid enemy ships/stations and to obtain new tech from captured vessels.
I didn't really miss any of the superweapon types too much either as they just unbalanced the game.
The teleporting cruiser-type with super shields, cloak, maxed engines etc, and having only a bhg as a weapon could slaughter 50+ stacked enemy battleships with a lucky hit and was just too much of an advantage for the player when used as a suicide ship.
Have to love those Doomstars. Even if they all looked the same. With heavy armour/hull, shield damper and auto-repair they were all but unstoppable (drool)...
I agree completely about the ship designs. Even with the graphics upgraded the Moo2 ships just didn't look as impressive.
I thought the leaders OTOH were a good idea as the AI seemed able to use them to good effect with their single super-fleet tactic.
Darnit, now I can't stop thinking about Moo1/2. And I've got a good few hours of work left ....
Actually this mightn't be such a bad thing .... 
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Father Beast
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My head stuck permanently in my civ
Feb 2000
time: 22:13
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I loved MoO a LOT! It was the only game I was more addicted to than civ, although I don't play much any more (the addiction has worn off).
I remember playing one time from 5 am to 1 am the next morning, and only quitting then because I finished the game. My kids were screaming for food periodically and I would rush into the kitchen and throw some at them. They even put themselves to bed after a while, letting me clobber the universe in peace.
uhh.. MoO vs. MoO2? let me think. I liked the multiple worlds per system in MoO2. The combat was better, ship design was about the same. I wasn't fond of having the basic colony ship, like most of us.
in MoO, I paid out of my treasury for ship maintenance, and these accursed "command points" in MoO2 were annoying as heck. so also were the Heads in your colonies you set to different tasks, instead of the sliding bar settings which were so much easier in MoO.
Personally, I don't play MoO2 that much, because I was just dissapointed. it looks like they meant to make it like civ, and ended up just making it like the moojr. civ scenario. it's just not moo anymore.
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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ravagon,
"I think the (max) size of the universe is the same in both games but Moo1 basically had a bigger feel to it."
It does feel a lot bigger for some reason.
"The teleporting cruiser-type with super shields, cloak, maxed engines etc, and having only a bhg as a weapon could slaughter 50+ stacked enemy battleships with a lucky hit and was just too much of an advantage for the player when used as a suicide ship."
That's the whole idea
You spend your production on research instead of making lots of ships, and when the enemy sends 32,000 heavies at you, that's what you do.
"Have to love those Doomstars. Even if they all looked the same. With heavy armour/hull, shield damper and auto-repair they were all but unstoppable (drool)..."
I am fighting the rock-heads in a MoO 2 game. They have killed off everybody else *ouch* and I am the only other race left. They have hordes of Doomstars to send at me. I don't know where the computer pulls them out from Good thing that I have better tech, so a few Titans defending a Star Fortress works, so far. I'll have to produce my own Doom Stars and bring the war upon them rock-heads. *hiss*
"I thought the leaders OTOH were a good idea as the AI seemed able to use them to good effect with their single super-fleet tactic."
Some of those leaders are ultra-gross. Vott, Matrix, and Mystic X, just to name a few.
Father Beast,
LOL! You're a real gamer
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02-12-2000 13:53
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