19-12-2004 22:52									#31
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quote: The loading times were outrageous and ruined any immersion. Steam annoyed me to hell repeatedly.

Fully agreed. After getting rid of Steam, it was all much better, and loading times also became significantly shorter.

quote: The game is extremely linear, though the open-ended physics would have you believe it's not. The repeated "invisible walls" I ran into when I did something they did not intend pissed me off.

I prefer linearity in FPS so that I don't get lost... oh and yes you can skip quite some places with the open-ended physics, as it has been demonstrated!

	19-12-2004 23:27									#32
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I don't mind linearity, I do mind it when you do things they didn't expect, and run into invisible walls that enforce this.

It's frustrating.

	19-12-2004 23:32									#33
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Out of curiosity, any specific examples of when you tried to do what and ran into those walls?

It is, however, obvious that they have to limit your movement freedom somehow... though I agree that there are usually better options than invisible walls.

	19-12-2004 23:50									#34
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Like visible walls.

	19-12-2004 23:52									#35
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Which don't work too well in outdoor areas .

	20-12-2004 00:40									#36
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Invisible walls in outdoor areas SUCK.

The only ones that are OK are those in water.

	20-12-2004 02:15									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Out of curiosity, any specific examples of when you tried to do what and ran into those walls?

The latest example was in Ravenholm. You're forced to jump down into this mine shaft into water, but there was a wooden beam sorta going across the wall and a landing on the other side. It would NOT let you jump there, no matter what.

Another one was near the beginning, where you just get off of the airboat and there's dangling electrical cables and stuff nearby. You go one direction and the roof collapses, but I spent a good 40 minutes constructing boxes and such to jump over it (thinking it was one of the many annoying puzzles in HL2), and I finally got to the top and looked out, with TONS of space to walk...and it was an invisible wall.

	20-12-2004 06:48									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Counter-Strike: Source is the best multiplayer... HANDS DOWN. UT2k4 is kind of lame. Half-Life 2 GOTY? nope... Rome: Total War baby.

Sava, i dont see how you'd think UT2k4 is lame while thinking CS is so great. According to solver, CS is just as lame as UT2k4 oughta be.

quote: Originally posted by Solver What's up with UT2k4 really? As far as I understand, UT sequels are just the same deathmatch, CTF + other modes with better graphics every time, what's the fun with that...

Anyway, the point is, sequels like UT2k4 arent for fans or casual players who wanna see drastically different or new features in the game. Unreal tournament is for tourney players who like the game as is, but with alteration to gameplay either balancing or changing the way they play high level competitive gaming.

At least FPS world gets more treats whenever revised games come out... fighter gamers cream in their pants if same exact game with slight frame data correction gets released..... we're talking difference of one or two digit in ways game calculate numbers....

Im sure CS:source too isnt just a pretty lil face lift. Ive played like 1hr of it, but i couldnt tell if the difference in gameplay from my old CS tourney days was from CS:source itself or because I was out of CS competitive scene for so long.

	20-12-2004 16:33									#39
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According to me, both CS and UT2k4 can be nice as long as there is real teamplay and no need to be a good player in order to enjoy yourself - which means, decent public servers. Going into a public DM server and getting creamed 1-18 isn't fun, it's frustrating. Which is my problem with DM usually - it's hard to find servers that are acceptable for casual players and are not full of people who play every day and are therefore superior.

	20-12-2004 19:38									#40
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I agree with solver, and I disagree that CS is anything special anymore.

The Gameplay hasn't changed in 4 years...

	20-12-2004 21:41									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Zero Sava, i dont see how you'd think UT2k4 is lame while thinking CS is so great. According to solver, CS is just as lame as UT2k4 oughta be.

gameplay... period... although I only play on a few servers where I know a lot of people, so we do have good teamplay, which makes the game so much more fun.

quote: Im sure CS:source too isnt just a pretty lil face lift. Ive played like 1hr of it, but i couldnt tell if the difference in gameplay from my old CS tourney days was from CS:source itself or because I was out of CS competitive scene for so long.

Source is just a pretty face lift. No need to change the gameplay when the gameplay is the greatest multiplayer ever conceived. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And at least now, I can have fun shooting all the little items and watch them fly.

	20-12-2004 22:23									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Tetris: Total War!

	20-12-2004 23:07									#43
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Tetris.

	20-12-2004 23:26									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I agree with solver, and I disagree that CS is anything special anymore. The Gameplay hasn't changed in 4 years...

Gameplay not changing is not a bad thing neccessarily. CS is the most popular online game ever, so I'm not surprised that gameplay stays the same (even though it will be tweaked for CSS later). Whether you enjoy it is another question, but many people like that same gameplay.

	21-12-2004 00:01									#45
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Yeah the fact it's still so successful despite not adding anything speaks volumes, even though I'm not a fan myself.

	21-12-2004 00:02									#46
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Yeah, I am not a fan myself either (although I have had some fun with CSS), but if you look at its success, it's obvious that something was done right about the game.

	21-12-2004 01:30									#47
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But it still shouldn't win any awards in 2004 for gameplay devised in 2000.

	21-12-2004 01:35									#48
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Why not? It's not an innovation award after all...

	21-12-2004 01:37									#49
	Put an end to popups!

Exactly.

	21-12-2004 03:43									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Why not? It's not an innovation award after all...

	21-12-2004 04:25									#51
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Quite.

	21-12-2004 06:54									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Why not? It's not an innovation award after all...

Because the game itself is unchanged. They are not graphical awards, they are game awards. If the game is unchanged since 2000, it does not deserve a new award in 2004.

Those awards ought to go to games actually released in 2004.

	21-12-2004 06:58									#53
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So what? It doesn't matter what was changed.

	21-12-2004 07:13									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear So what? It doesn't matter what was changed.

Counterstrike is not a 2004 game, no matter if the graphics are slightly upgraded.

If it was Counterstrike 2, with new game modes and significant changes, then I could see it...

	21-12-2004 07:14									#55
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So should C3 Gold be eligible for the award, even though the only thing changed was the box art?

	21-12-2004 08:47									#56
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Nope.

	21-12-2004 10:31									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker So should C3 Gold be eligible for the award, even though the only thing changed was the box art?

If the game wasn't changed in the slightest, then no.

	21-12-2004 15:01									#58
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CSS is still a different game from CS. It has the same gameplay, but different graphics, maps, engine, online system... yes it's not enough to make it really different for CS 1.6 experts, but it is a different game.

Or on the technical level, most source code to CS and CSS is different.

	21-12-2004 21:41									#59
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The maps are still the same with a few additions when I played, which qualifies it as an expansion pack of sorts.

The engine and code may be different, but the game is not. It doesn't even look that great.

	21-12-2004 23:49									#60
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There is a new map now, a completely new map.

The gameplay is the same, but it's still a different game from the original CS, although subtly so. Definitely eligible for awards.