19-12-2004 09:54									#1
	PBEM Mod: UUs Tired of ads?

One thing I was discussing earlier today was the fact that some UUs are so late that they never show up in PBEM, making them mostly useless - and discouraging people from playing the otherwise useful civ. America and Germany are two examples (perhaps the only two good examples?)... particularly America, whose F-15 is quaint at best and useless in PBEM.

Should we consider changing a few of these to earlier in the game, to make the civs playable again? For example, you could give the Americans a Gunpowder UU "Minuteman" which is a cheaper musketman 1/4/1 40 shields, and the Germans could be given any number of possible UUs ... including but not limited to an archer mod (2(1)/2/1, 2(1)/1/2, etc.), a swordsman mod (3/3/1, 3/2/2, etc.), a horseman mod (3/1/2, 2/2/2, etc.), or a knight or M.I. mod (4/4/2, 5/3/2, 4/3/1, etc.) ... you could 'realistically' justify any of these.

Any opinions? Any other civs we should consider?

	19-12-2004 10:51									#2
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I think F-14s should be made available with Mysticism.

	19-12-2004 12:32									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D I think F-14s should be made available with Mysticism.

Um, sure ... and you still need oil and aluminum to make them.

	01-01-2005 22:41									#4
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I generally agree with the premise of this thread, though I question how plausible creating, new, early and balanced UUs will be. It may require more playtesting than can be reliable accounted upon.

	02-01-2005 00:31									#5
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i don't think that'll be a problem around here.

	02-01-2005 01:00									#6
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There are plenty of PBEM games starting, but getting timely results from them is another matter. It will be quite a while before we can bring any empirical results to the table on any modifications we make.

I like the strategic elements of assessing the various tribes based upon known elements of how they are currently balanced.

	04-01-2005 07:28									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think we could playtest a little bit, and not make drastic changes a little bit. The occasional fast game is possible - I could certainly spend a saturday or sunday or three doing a quick 2 player to see how something specific works with someone (or someones).

I wasn't meaning anything drastic, anyhow. Perhaps even just taking already existing UUs and changing their names so others can use them - ie taking the Legion and giving it to Germany, making it essentially a scientific version of Rome. Not a drastic change, but one that makes Germany playable at least...

	04-01-2005 09:41									#8
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I kinda think the Germans are best in MP. (Not the best civ in MP, but at their best in MP. Starting with both Archers and Spearmen right off the bat can be very advantageous, especially if there's no AI for easy tech-trading.)

	04-01-2005 17:11									#9
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Then why have I never, ever seen someone play the Germans who wasn't obligated because we were playing only sci. civs or only mil. civs? Same with Americans. I think it's clear that civs with late UUs are disliked in MP - perhaps even sadder for the reason you state. Although I tend to think things that encourage a civ to go to early war make them poorly suited for MP, as you don't tend to go to that early of a war in MP whereas you might in SP ...

	04-01-2005 18:51									#10
	Got spare money?

Just because something isn't popular doesn't mean it isn't good. People often don't recognize the strategic value of certain things. And again, it's not that I think they're a great civ, it's just those are some very practical starting techs. And I'm not sure what makes you think early war is less likely in MP. An Archer rush is an Archer rush no matter your opponent. With the Germans I can easily set up ~4 cities with Barracks to send 8 Archers with 2 Spearmen heading in your direction by ~2000BC, all the while researching IW at a fifty-turn pace and raking in the gold for Warrior upgrades to back up the initial wave very quickly afterwards.