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el freako
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Bristol, European Union
Oct 1999
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
There is one slight **** up here. It isn't.  The American economy is actually growing way faster. |
At the moment, because it is furthur along in it's economic cycle (it entered recession 1st, it recovered 1st).
The US's population is also growing faster than the EU's, also there is the fact that European growth is understated relative to America's.
Using reported growth rates the EU15's GDP should have fallen from 100% of the US's in 1990 to 89% by 2002, however when it was actually measured in 2002 it was 95% of the US's.
So european growth is understated by around 0.5% a year (which is around the improvement that US growth showed when it switched to a different method of calculating inflation) - which means that at least half of the percieved gap in growth between the US and EU is due to measurement differences
Fez is correct that the US's total GDP is growing faster than the GDP of the member states of the EU (but remember we keep adding new members so our total GDP is rising faster than the US's) but the average income (which is what I was talking about) is growing faster in europe than it is in america.
By Fez's logic Nigeria has a more successful economy than America's (3.9% growth over the last 10 years compared to 3.3% for the US) even though it's average income growth has been much slower (1.0% for Nigeria compared with 2.2% for the US)
Again Giancarlo is guilty of only looking at data that will support his view and ignoring any inconvienent data that might refute it - the classic definition of a fanatic.
quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Why is the US economy growing faster then the EU economy as a whole? |
Aha, some reasoned questions that I can answer - see it pays to be an optimist 
I have answered this above, I think you are getting confused between total output and output per person - see what I said about Nigeria.
quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Why is it the biggest economies in the EU sluggish? |
Partly because they are in a different stage in the economic cycle (they grew much faster than the US in 2001 for example), and partly because the biggest economies (Germany, France and Italy) have some of the highes per-captia incomes - much of the growth in the EU today comes from poorer countries (Spain, Ireland etc) catching up.
The same thing happened in the US when the south's growth outpaced the north.
quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Why is the unemployment in these countries in the double digits?
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It isn't, the only country in the EU15 with unemployment in double digits is Spain as you can see here
quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Why is it living costs have shot up in the EU past income growth (well the strong euro can explain that)? |
Again, they havn't - real incomes are still rising fairly well - indeed you show your ignorance of basic economics by assuming that the strengthening euro would contribute to this, whereas it would lower import costs leading to a decrease in living costs.
For example the price of oil has risen by only 10% in euro-terms since 2000 whereas it has risen by 50% in dollar terms.
quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Why is it these countries like France have lost all power internationally and to be able to influence international politics?
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I wouldn't say they've lost all power but their power is much diminished on what it was a century ago - however the EU's power has definately increased.
Who would have believed ten years ago that the US would be forced to change it's tax code by the EU?
Or that a merger between two american companies could be blocked by the EU's competition commison?
Last edited by el freako on 20-12-2004 at 10:42
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Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:16
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quote:
Originally posted by el freako
Oh my poor child you are getting confused aren't you?
Ok a remedial lesson for you:
Total GDP is the total value added in an country/area
GDP per head is that number divided by the population of said country/area.
now, Total GDP in most (but not all) european countries is growing slower than in the US (as I have said twice before)
but GDP per head is growing faster due to the difference in population growth.
So the total output of american is growing faster than europeans, but their average output is growing slower. |
Nice try liar. I'm talking about the actual GDP growth rate, not statistical skewing.
Furthermore, I may be stressed out because I have a long plane trip this week.
quote:
Do you understand now little one? |
**** you.
quote:
I agree that the EU is not a nation but it's a lot more than a grouping of like-minded states as well. |
There is significant disagreement amongst Europe, the old Europe and new Europe.
quote:
whether it evolves into a unitary state without something like the US's civil war remains to be seen. |
For some reason you don't take into geographic, language and cultural barriers into account. Certainly there were some cultural barriers between the Conferadacy and the Union, however that is nothing like what it is like between European nations. The languages are totally different. It evolving into a unitary state is highly unlikely.
quote:
Ahem, I have provided one line to disprove your statement about double-digit unemployment and a whole spreadsheet with links embedded in it for the majority of my argument. |
No you didn't
quote:
You seem to have missed the link and you didn't even bother to look at the spreadsheet.
So the score is:
Links provided by me: 3 (2 in the spreadsheet)
Links provided by Giancarlo: 0 |
Nope.
My score: 6,000,000 (this is based on the validity of my argument
Your score: -1,000,000,000 (you are in a hole)
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20-12-2004 10:11
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