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cinch
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:16
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DP
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
quote:
Got spare money?
Yeah, you could guess that maybe one small country might go fundy. So freekin' what? In the meantime you helped a 'little people' kick the royal sheet out of the Red Army and provided a link in the short chain to the fall of the Soviet Union.
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Noone knew that those would be the consequences of that. It was just another little population of 20 million doomed to live in crap. |
Where'd the money comment come from?
I believe you are incorrect about 'nobody knowing the consequences'. The mujahadeen were at it for a bit before the Yanks started funneling support to them. However, you are almost certainly correct that noone suspected at the onset what would happen in the end, but...
There was a widely held sentiment to give the Soviets back some of their own medicine (at least among people if not in Washington). That was to give all reasonable support to a 'native' population to make the Red Army bleed on the same order that the US Army et al had in Vietnam (and Korea).
What happened in the end was most likely way beyond anyone's dreams, but it did start out with the intention of giving the Reds a bloody nose. Bloody nose turned out to be fatal. 'Yay' from my POV, but I can see how some would disagree.
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You should recall that most of us this side of the wall were somewhat apprehensive about our chances were the Red Army to be unleashed across the Elbe.
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Nukes. |
I'm glad the feelings of the people at the time bores you, and that you know much better than us how we really should have felt. Damn, you're right, we should have welcomed global thermonuclear warfare! How could we have been so stupid!?
What size hat do you wear?
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Should the CIA have foretold 9/11? Maybe. But trust me, no one alive was thinking that at the time. Everyone was thinking, holy ****, these guys are kicking Russian ass! We didn't think it could be done this side of armageddon.
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Well, of course, the CIA never thought about the future of that country. I mean who cares?
And that's what's wrong in this. |
You're right, it sucked. 'Everyone' was doing it. That was the way of the world, but that is cold comfort to the people who got seriously ****ed over in various countries around the world.
I think it's good that those days are largely in the past and the world is still here with us in it, aren't you?
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:16
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I am glad that you agree that millions of people paid the price of a little political game, and I am certainly glad that the time for many of those things has ended. However, the same politics, and guidelines remain, and I certainly don't feel that destroying the SU was such a worthy goal to sink the lives of millions of people in Afghanistan, and even that is just 20/20 hindsight, while really it was ****ing the people of Afghanistan for some soviet bleeding. ( Unlike vietnam, btw, because no matter how much you hate the soviets, they usually didn't keep their system of government to themselves, i.e. the people of vietnam did get a better deal under the communists, unlike the people of afghanistan under the fundy dictatorship. )
Also, while the time of the big "games" of that sort is up, I feel that nothing has changed in the working assumption of the decision makers, and so, if a country has to be f*cked in order to achieve some goal, it will still be f*cked.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:16
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Little political game? Heh. You really didn't live through it.
It was our way or 'your' way, no in between was allowed by either side. It was an us or them situation, and yes a lot of people paid the price, not all furriners. There are a lot of Chinese, Soviet, American, Australian, and on and on... boys buried all over the globe to attest to the fact it wasn't just other people paying the price.
I really don't want to get into a 'I'll see your Afghanistan and raise you a Cambodia' in some sort of who had worse piss contest, but we can if you wish. I will readily admit that the Yanks, and the rest of us, were right rat bastards in Afghanistan. We didn't really want the country. We wanted Soviet blood after several of our own blood lettings. We would have been happy if a better government had come about, but we didn't really care too much about the people who eventually won out. The reds got a **** kicking, and the Afghans decided their own fate. All was good, in a less than far sighted world.
On a more important point that you make, and one worth discussing, I agree that politics has not changed too much, and that other countries are still subject to being ****ed over. However, the imperative has in large part changed. It is no longer necessary to act this way to survive and to triumph over the other side (that was the long term goal of both sides during the Cold War, to win, because both sides were convinced the other intended to do them in). That means that the Russians, the Chinese, and the Americans no longer have to look at the third world countries as pieces in the game, and should be able to have more productive relations.
Things are different.
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