22-12-2004 04:33									#1
	Happier people when war declared on me? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have been micromanaging my people's happiness in order to get the maximum number of happy people and using excess Specialists as Tax Collectors. Many of my cities had all Entertainers, some had mostly Entertainers and a few Tax men, and a few were already happy enough so as not to require many or any Entertainers.

Then, the evil English declared war on me, unprovoked. All of a sudden, my people became a lot happier! Most of my cities now, in order to be all happy (except for the always-content Specialists), required zero or very few Entertainers. I did not have any other happiness-related events occur--no Wonders built, no peace treaties (I had not been at war with anyone prior to this), no change in government, no happiness-improvement rush, etc.

Is this normal? When an aggressor civ declares an unprovoked war on you, do your people like you more?

	22-12-2004 04:53									#2
	Got spare money?

Its just that no one likes the English. Thats all. Goes to show how realistic Civ 3 is.

	22-12-2004 05:56									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

this is normal. The initial surge when a civ declars war on you is your population rallies to the cause of defending the nation, thus they become happier.

But as the war drags on, you'll notice your cities will leave the We love the king days, and soon will begin rioting. This can be alleviated if you aren't in a democracy or other goverment with war weariness problems. And the Universal suffrage great wonder, and police stations.

	22-12-2004 11:04									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by rickontherun_21 Its just that no one likes the English. Thats all. Goes to show how realistic Civ 3 is.

Heh heh mate.

Dissident: Thanks. Makes sense.

	22-12-2004 16:44									#5
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by rickontherun_21 Its just that no one likes the English. Thats all. Goes to show how realistic Civ 3 is.

Hi Richard

It's just jealousy; its taken us a thousand years to be this hated.

Regards Richard

	22-12-2004 21:25									#6
	Support Apolyton

Well... at least you're not French.

	22-12-2004 21:46									#7
	Re: Happier people when war declared on me? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yes, a Republic / Democracy being attacked trigures a negative WW. Max length is 5 turns.

Under any other governement, just being at war causes the same negative WW regardless of who declares it with no limit.

quote: Originally posted by holy I have been micromanaging my people's happiness in order to get the maximum number of happy people and using excess Specialists as Tax Collectors. Many of my cities had all Entertainers, some had mostly Entertainers and a few Tax men, and a few were already happy enough so as not to require many or any Entertainers. Then, the evil English declared war on me, unprovoked. All of a sudden, my people became a lot happier! Most of my cities now, in order to be all happy (except for the always-content Specialists), required zero or very few Entertainers. I did not have any other happiness-related events occur--no Wonders built, no peace treaties (I had not been at war with anyone prior to this), no change in government, no happiness-improvement rush, etc. Is this normal? When an aggressor civ declares an unprovoked war on you, do your people like you more?

	24-12-2004 09:43									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If you're in another government, wouldn't negative WW just do nothing?

	24-12-2004 18:50									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Fascism reduces war weariness, I believe, altho' I've never tried it. I see no other benefits in it of any great value.
But for that, Holy, you'll need to get Conquests, and unless I'm mistaken you mentioned elsewhere you don't have it. Another good reason to get it (2 new govts).

	25-12-2004 00:31									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker If you're in another government, wouldn't negative WW just do nothing?

No, negative WW still brings happiness, though positive WW doesn't bring unhappiness.

	27-12-2004 05:10									#11
	Re: Re: Happier people when war declared on me? Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Yes, a Republic / Democracy being attacked trigures a negative WW. Max length is 5 turns.

Maybe it's different in Conquests, but my war lasted much longer than 5 turns (maybe 15-20+) and I retained my increased happiness for the duration, to my surprise. When the war ended, my people returned to roughly the same level of happiness/unhappiness as before the war.

And yes, I guess I need to get Conquests!

	27-12-2004 09:14									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't think there is a maximum time limit on war happiness. What happens is that you get a 30 point deduction, meaning if you have no previous WW with the attacking civ, you start at -30 instead of zero. Then it lasts as long as it takes you to accumulate 30 WW points.

	27-12-2004 18:30									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

How long does it take to accumulate war weariness points?

Is there a definitive thread on war weariness and its affects somewhere?

Im aware of this, and sort of understand it, but dont have a clue of precisely how it takes effect.

Thanks

	27-12-2004 21:53									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Here is Bamspeedys post:

Bamspeedy from CFC

Length of war did not seem to be a factor (only the # of turns you end your turn with units in their territory).

War weariness kicks in at various thresholds.
First threshold: 25% of your people become unhappy (Republic)
50% unhappy (democracy)
Second threshold: 50% unhappy (Republic)
100% unhappy (Democracy)
Third threshold: 100% unhappy (Republic)
Government overthrown (Democracy)
*Republic can never be overthrown

Units you lose, cities you lose, ending your turn in enemy territory contribute to WW.

Universal Suffrage makes 1 person content in all cities (1 person that would have become unhappy because of war weariness).

Police Stations allow 25% of your people to not become unhappy from WW. (so, in republic at the first threshold, you would see no unhappiness).

I guess I should add:

+1 for each turn you end your turn with a unit in their territory
+2 for each unit you lose
+15 if you have a city of yours razed (or captured?)

*possible ones, that haven't fully been checked:
pillaging, starvation of your citizens due to enemies having control of your former cities

First threshold: 30 war weariness points (WW)
Second threshold: 60 WW
Third threshold: 90WW (Democracy)
120WW (Republic)
*********************************

How does war weariness work?
The study of war weariness goes on. I will thank Bamspeedy and DaveMcW (any other?) for their research, it really helped.

General:
War weariness is tracked for each civ indepentently.
We measure war weariness with wwp (war weariness point).

The different levels of war weariness:

code:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Level wwp
-1: - 0 wh (war happiness)
0: 0 - 30 normal, no effect
1: 31 - 60
2: 61 - 90
3: 91 - 120
4: 121 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Effect of ww in war:

All government:
Level -1: 25% happy people

Republic:
Level 1: 25% unhappy people
Level 2: 50% unhappy people
Level 3: 50% unhappy people
Level 4: 100% unhappy people

Democracy:
Level 1: 50% unhappy people
Level 2: 100% unhappy people
Level 3: Revolt

Number of unhappy people is round down. The number from each civ is added together and subtract 25% for police station and 1 for US (Universal Sufferage). The total number of unhappy citizen from ww can not exceed number of citizen.

War happiness is calculated independent in the same way. (No effect of improvments)
War happiness from several enemies could really help

Calculations of wwp:
All starts at 0.
Subtract 30 wwp if the AI attacks you, except when AI is provoked by:
- use of nuclear weapons
- failed spy mission
Anything else? Please tell me if you find something.

Add 1 wwp if you have units in enemys territory when in war. (In beginning of the turn)

The following describes the effect for a human:
Add 1 wwp for each
- lost unit without defence value
- improvment pillage/bombed
- unit that are bombard down to 1 hp
Add 2 wwp when a human attacker is defeated
Add 2 wwp when a unit with defence value is attacked. (Even if you win)
Add 16 wwp when a size 1 city is captured 17 wwp for bigger cities.
What if your cities get bombed?
There is a bug for these penalties. For a human-AI battle, the AI gets the same penalty as the human (he gets penalty for taking human cities, but not for losing his own). For an AI-AI war both gets the penalty the first AI should have. There seems to be no problem with human-human battles.

Subtract 1 wwp if level >= 1, no enemy inside your territory and no units in enemys territory.
Subtract 1/20 of current wwp each turn in peace (round up)

Assume you sign peace when you just have gotten 100% ww in republic (121wwp) and keep out of his territory. Then you will lose 8 wwp the first turn, 7wwp the next. It will take 19 turns to get down to level 0, and 43 turn until the war is totally forgotten.

EDIT: Added info of how the AI gets wwp. Corrected some of the number of wwp given and the descriptions of when you get 1 wwp subtracted.

In the beginning (turn 0) you have 121 wwp.

The next turn this is reduced by 1/20 because of peace. That is 7 wwp (Round up), and 1 wwp because theres no units in wrong territory. So the wwp drops to 113.

The turn after 1/20 of 113 is 6, so wwp is now only reduced by 7.

And so it goes on untill turn 19. No the wwp is below 31, and the only reduction is the 1/20 of the current wwp.

After 43 turn the wwp is down to 0. For each turn you stay in enemy territory, or he stays in yours, , will add one turn. Unless the wwp is reduced to 30, or you are lucky with roundings.

List of turns and wwp
Turn 0- 1 reduction by 8: 121, 113
Turn 2- 3 reduction by 7: 106, 99
Turn 4- 7 reduction by 6: 93, 87, 81, 75
Turn 8-10 reduction by 5: 70, 65, 60
Turn 11-15 reduction by 4: 56, 52, 48, 44, 40
Turn 16-19 reduction by 3: 37, 34, 31, 28
Turn 20-23 reduction by 2: 26, 24, 22, 20
Turn 24-43 reduction by 1: 19, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0

	27-12-2004 21:55									#15
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 How long does it take to accumulate war weariness points? Is there a definitive thread on war weariness and its affects somewhere? Im aware of this, and sort of understand it, but dont have a clue of precisely how it takes effect. Thanks

Looks like Monkey has avoided an entire level of WW with your current tactics.