22-12-2004 23:17									#1
	2153 End Turn and 2154 Discussion Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The timing turned out well for this turn. They just posted it, and I'll be leaving town in a little less than 48 hours. Here's a copy of the turn we were sent...

Attachment: acdg3-morgans-2153.zip
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	23-12-2004 05:08									#2
	We should defend ourselves. Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I say we send one defensive unit on each corner of the nation, and maybe two or three on the corner with the most intense action going on.

	23-12-2004 11:27									#3
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I'm going to go in reverse to what was suggested as far as the former fleet path for building mines. For a lot of the distant formers, we can build two mines in the time it takes to get to Mt. Drogue and build one. Formers that are near Mt. Drogue will of course go right to work there.

Argi Narnia should start a crawler next. It will re-home to Mussels and head for a mine just NE of Argi Narnia, to support a few ships. The two formers in the area can start on the mine in the next couple turns.

The former near Micha Archives is building a road. The formers in the west could head there to start a mine. Choke on This could use it to support defenders or ships (if it goes to size one after building a CP). Then those formers can head toward Mt. Drogue.

Mead Metal should start two CP's in quick succession, to found an additional base, and refound the base at size three.

Whohabitat and Yoda Soda should build two CP's each, so they can get to size one and contribute to the navy.

I've made a decision that we need to go to 27 bases. The energy situation is nearly a wash, but we would gain minerals. The thing that tipped the scales for me, though, is in case the Spartans invade, losing say three bases will not impact our overall production nearly as much. The coastal bases can contribute most of the CP's, while the inland bases supply crawlers and formers.

Commerce with Spartans... we have 6 more commerce income than they do. The 40% will come out to 2.4 that we should send. I'll round off to 2.

Morgan Industries is collecting so much energy, that all it needs to boom are three things: Holo Theatre, Hab Comp, and two crawlers on rainy farms. Then we could build a Research Hospital for a super-science city.

Labs: Eco Eng in two years.
Econ: 131 ec/year.

I'll log back on in approximately 24 hours. I'll use any suggestions, end the turn, and send it on to the Spartans.

Attachment: acdg3-morgans-2153_endturn.zip
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	23-12-2004 11:27									#4
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Base production...

Attachment: 2153_f4.jpg
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	23-12-2004 11:28									#5
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Central map...

Please note one of the rovers in or next to RFR should head back to Mussels, along with one of the scouts near ZZT.

Attachment: 2153_map.jpg
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	23-12-2004 11:31									#6
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We popped a sonar pod to reveal some more sea in the Northeast... the 'Gator Boat can just head south, pop a pod or two, and either steal from Yang or continue south.

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	23-12-2004 11:32									#7
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Our other Gator Boat got a sonar pod, too. Too bad we couldn't auto-complete Half an SP on Wheels with those. Oh, well, maybe next turn...

Attachment: 2153_s.jpg
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	23-12-2004 11:33									#8
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Our transport and litigator have found a possible target. We're hiding in fungus right now. We should be able to go along the river and infiltrate Zak. At least, I assume it's Zak just out of view there...

Attachment: 2153_w.jpg
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	23-12-2004 16:31									#9
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Jtsisyoda, I did not take into account the formers' position when I posted my plan. I like your 'pincer' movement idea better than mine. I was just considering the fact that they were volcano tiles, but your way is more efficient.

-- CTO #endgame

	23-12-2004 16:34									#10
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I think our current defence plan is 'Don't annoy the Spartans'.

Yang is pretty choked off at the moment and the rest of the factions are rather out of the way, I think.

-- CTO #endgame

	24-12-2004 11:02									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Fellow members of the board, as Chief Security Officer I believe it is time we once again consider our current and long-term "security" measures. There are at least two reasons for this:

1) By M.Y. 2155 we sould have full access to planetary mineral resources which may dictate a change in our current defensive and offensive support strategies.

2) Our current map data suggests only limited land based expansion options.

Furthermore, I find our current diplomatic agreements with the Spartan Federation highly problematic and extremely risky. My main concern is why the Spartans still prefer peace..? A sound military strategy would indeed be to ensure peace until the point where a full scale military operation can be initiated; this includes transit time for military deployment. Add to this that by acquiring infiltration the Spartans have already successfully completed the first stage in a military operation against us.

I would like to see the following measures discussed:

a) Focus on covert operations to gain technological parity. Replace our current Defense Attorneys (Synth) production with standard rover class Probe Teams. This allows for extra flexibility and--more importantly--mobility; both offensively and defensively. My military evaluation of synthmetal armored probe units is that they would be obsolete once (or if) we face an invasion force.

b) Perimeter reconnaissance. Sensor Arrays and naval probe class patrol vessels. This would enable us to minimize our base defenses.

c) Defensive infantry vs. Defensive rovers: Infantry is considerably cheaper to upgrade once we gain access to superiour armor technology and our base layout and infrastructure allows for less mobile defensive units. Relying primarily on infantry class defenders could prove long-term cost efficient--should we encounter any invasion forces.

d) Direct offensive covert operations: It may be worth risking a state of vendetta with the Human Hive. 25% of all hivean forces are currently stationed for base defenses and it seems the Chairman's military is focused on southern operations. Gaining access to all hivean technologies should allow us to focus our own research on developing our infrastructure--especially our economy. The natural choke point near Manufacturing Warrens should be relatively easily defended once we have access to better weaponry. There are alternative targets for covert operations, though.

e) The "Don't annoy the Spartans" doctrine is very dangerous! A viable military and diplomatic strategy may be to harrass the Spartans--verging to a conflict. Our best hopes for peace would be for the Spartans to remain inside Spartan territory. Aggressive use of transports, probe teams and probe vessels may be all that is required.

Finally, the Department of Security shall not interfere with the affairs of the Department of Diplomacy. The presented issues merely reflect a military evaluation of our current situation--as well as a tentative evaluation of our future military potential.

Chief Security Officer Rubin

	24-12-2004 11:31									#12
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Thanks for the input Rubin. I agree the Spartans are just waiting for the right time to strike.

A) The synth garrisons are actually to defend against worms. Lots of worms have been popping up and we've gotten a little lucky in not losing a base. When we get HEC we should get Plasma Garrisons. At that point, most synth attorneys can hang out between cities, so their locations will be unknown to the Spartans. They can double as road-blockers and probe counter-strikers.

B) We do have a couple sensors and should do more as formers head to Mt. Drogue.

D) I agree we should build some standard probes and send them to visit Yang.

Please elaborate on E).

As far as the diplomacy goes, it's a tricky balance... giving Sparta money so we can get HEC and SFF a little sooner.

	24-12-2004 11:51									#13
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Turn posted. I switched Micha Archives to a quick probe for stealing from Yang.

	24-12-2004 12:12									#14
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quote: Originally posted by jtsisyoda A) The synth garrisons are actually to defend against worms. Lots of worms have been popping up and we've gotten a little lucky in not losing a base. When we get HEC we should get Plasma Garrisons. At that point, most synth attorneys can hang out between cities, so their locations will be unknown to the Spartans. They can double as road-blockers and probe counter-strikers.

While this is a sound approach as long as we face heavy resource restrictions, I do believe we would benefit more from regular rover class probe teams--or even Scout Patrols or Synthmetal defenders (specifically for base defenses against native lifeforms). The added mobility of rover class probe teams allows for extra flexibility and offensive capability. The support costs of regular troops are insignificant now compared to the higher costs of synthmetal armored probe teams.

We would only need road-blockers and defenders in case of an invasion and I certainly want to prevent this; one option, as suggested, is to focus more on offensive initiatives.

I furthermore believe in giving the Spartans nothing at all. However, it may be wise to stall such (futile) negotiations for as long as possible. Should we switch to a more offensive strategy all Spartan technologies are for us to steal; thus spending our funds on probe teams and preventing the Spartans from receiving additional energy credits.

quote: Originally posted by jtsisyoda Please elaborate on E).

We may harrass the Spartans by deploying units near or within their territory. A combination of naval transports and naval probes would tie up at least some of the Spartan reconnaissance units. At first, we need not attack nor engage in any kind of hostilities. The current problem is that as long as we remain passive (i.e. not deploying units), we are playing along their rules and interests.

If the Spartans do attack because of our harrassment, they will be doing so before they are fully prepared and our economic advantage suggests that we have the superior military flexibility.

Chief Security Officer Rubin

	24-12-2004 16:28									#15
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Once we get EcoEng, we should make a nutstarved base with some drone control (possible hgp alone could satisfy this, if we kept it to 1 pop (i.e. worker works borehole, or goes specialist)) and make it mineralfocused to get up support for garrisons. Also, as discussed in my T-Form plan, split the crawlers on the rockyroadmines over a couple of new bases to keep the ecodamage down. I'd put one such base 2 squares north of Scorpi Ski Resort, due to the arid terrain and the ease of deployment of mineral crawlers. Recommend the use of one from Mead Metal.

Once we get some solid defence, we should start annoying Sparta

-- CTO #endgame

	25-12-2004 15:20									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think we should all focus on economics and domestic issues to celebrate Christmas in-game.