04-01-2005 18:40									#31
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Going into Anarchy does not reset WW but it does prevent more from adding up and of course you suffer no WW while in Anarchy. If you have enough units and know you can end the war within the Anarchy time frame, it can sometimes be a better gov't than Republic or Democracy. Remember, you pay no maintenance and no unit support at all under Anarchy.

Once you hit 50% lux, your research is dead anyway. Chances are most of your gold is paying for units with the remainder going to maintenance. However, it's possible in a long war that you find yourself running a deficit. Switch to Anarchy and turn over all your cities to the happiness governor to minimize riots and maximize food. Yeah, your cities may shrink down a point or two, but that's better than having to rebuild a cathedral lost during a riot.

	04-01-2005 18:46									#32
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Going into Anarchy does not reset WW but it does prevent more from adding up and of course you suffer no WW while in Anarchy.

WW adds all the time, whenever you are at war, independent from the government form your civ is in. Only Feudalism, Republic, and Democracy receive the negative effects of WW, though. And you will feel that, once out of Anarchy.

quote: Originally posted by gunkulator If you have enough units and know you can end the war within the Anarchy time frame, it can sometimes be a better gov't than Republic or Democracy. Remember, you pay no maintenance and no unit support at all under Anarchy.

And also, you'll be a couple turns without research, without the possibility to rush things, and with a higher flip risk. No, thanks.

quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Once you hit 50% lux, your research is dead anyway. Chances are most of your gold is paying for units with the remainder going to maintenance. However, it's possible in a long war that you find yourself running a deficit. Switch to Anarchy and turn over all your cities to the happiness governor to minimize riots and maximize food. Yeah, your cities may shrink down a point or two, but that's better than having to rebuild a cathedral lost during a riot.

If you need to go to 50% lux, you should be running a different government for a long time now. 50% lux means you'd be better off even with a Monarchy, and much better with other governments that don't receive WW. You'll need to switch anyway, so you'll have to take Anarchy, whatever it brings.

	04-01-2005 20:43									#33
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As long as you got a ww-affected government you will often end up in a situation where ww gets so ugly something drastic have to be done about it. If peace is not an option, anarchy may provide you with those few turns you need to finish someone off completely.

	04-01-2005 21:31									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 WW adds all the time, whenever you are at war, independent from the government form your civ is in. Only Feudalism, Republic, and Democracy receive the negative effects of WW, though. And you will feel that, once out of Anarchy.

Yes, good point about accumulating WW. However if you could finish the war while in Anarchy, you could effectively do a Republic to Republic switch and no longer need to worry about WW.

quote: And also, you'll be a couple turns without research, without the possibility to rush things, and with a higher flip risk. No, thanks.

If you have 50% lux, you're hardly doing any research anyway. Unit support also gets nasty with big wars. You can end up running a deficit. Again my point was simply if you are only a few turns away from ending a war, it sometimes makes sense to switch to Anarchy to save on gold and to prevent riots.

	14-01-2005 00:48									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 WW adds all the time, whenever you are at war, independent from the government form your civ is in. Only Feudalism, Republic, and Democracy receive the negative effects of WW, though. And you will feel that, once out of Anarchy.

This is true- if the war continues, and although the WW will not reset for 20 turns, it will not matter unless you have to go to war again with this civ (which you obviously can not do if it no longer exists)

quote: And also, you'll be a couple turns without research, without the possibility to rush things, and with a higher flip risk. No, thanks..

its worth the risk for the anarchy period, but once anarchy ends a peace traty must be signed.

quote: If you need to go to 50% lux, you should be running a different government for a long time now. 50% lux means you'd be better off even with a Monarchy, and much better with other governments that don't receive WW. You'll need to switch anyway, so you'll have to take Anarchy, whatever it brings.

If

	14-01-2005 22:42									#36
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Back to the origional point of the thread; in the early game, i'll go pretty far out of my way to keep and protect good wonders I can take, but in the late game, burn them all. Especally wonders that give landmass-basesed bonuses on another contenent; sure, you've taken a few cities on that contanent, and yeah, it'd be nifty to have a Hoover Dam or something there, but it won't ever really do you much good, while if your opponent gets it back (usually by culture flip) it'll help him a lot more. If I'm in a situation where the wonder will probably flip back, I'll usually raze it rather then let him have it back, unless it's something I REALLY need for some reason (like a Leo's right before I upgrade to Mech Infantry, or a Sistine Chapel at a key moment). Of course, early game, it's a different story; if I a city flips or is retaken 3 times and I lose 3 whole stacks of units, but get a pyramids or an oracle or something, it's probably worth it.

Late game, there have also been times I've started wars specifically in order to raze the UN building.

	14-01-2005 23:30									#37
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Personally, I have less trouble with unit support costs during a war than in peace time with Republic.

During the war, I'm losing some units, lowering my costs while at the same time I'm increasing my number of cities, increasing my number of free units, also lowering my costs.

	14-01-2005 23:51									#38
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there should be some penalty to razing. I was playing smac and was about to raze a city then I realized the penalty for doing so .

it's doubtful they'll include a penalty for it in civ4 though. but who knows.

	15-01-2005 09:17									#39
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Let me get this straight. Captured cities with wonders are more likely to revolt in civ3 than the same city would have been if it hadn't had the wonder?

	15-01-2005 10:12									#40
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Well you do have penalty for razing, all civs dislike it and it adds up in your rep, if you care.

	15-01-2005 10:14									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo Let me get this straight. Captured cities with wonders are more likely to revolt in civ3 than the same city would have been if it hadn't had the wonder?

I do not know that the wonders have anything to do with revolt chances. The reason it would appear so is that wonder cities are going to be large and that is the main danger to it. They will have more resisters at the start.

	15-01-2005 15:58									#42
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Wonder cities will also have more culture, which influnce the change of a flip.

	15-01-2005 22:51									#43
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Wonder cities are core cities, so if you are capturing them, not much is left of the empire. If they are not metros, then I am not concerned about the flip. If they are metros, I do not want to deal with the need for pollution and pop. If you could sell off hospitals, then I may want to hold a metro.

I only hold metros to prevent border expansion, so I can get use of the surrounding tiles. I may not be able to get a settler in to grab tiles for my next move. This was bigger concern in Civ3, where you cannot just abandon a populated city on the same turn.

	15-01-2005 23:04									#44
	Inflate your Upload Space

and if they are core cities, you should be close to their capitol. So take that too. I always take their palace.

sure it changes location, but if I'm speaking correctly, I think the new palace will take some time to accumulate culture. although preferribly I like to kick their palace off my continent completely onto an island. that's when I make peace.

	18-01-2005 04:36									#45
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I just *gave away* Shakespeare's Theatre!!!

I'm still screwing around with the Vikings (they are more and more awesome as I learn to use them better ), and I engaging in some nasty pillaging to prune the stronger AI civs... at the same time, I am gifting captured cities to weaker AI civs from other continents, just to mix things up.

Side benefit, btw: The sole Berserker in the city gets teleported home!!!

	18-01-2005 06:32									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus I just *gave away* Shakespeare's Theatre!!! I'm still screwing around with the Vikings (they are more and more awesome as I learn to use them better ), and I engaging in some nasty pillaging to prune the stronger AI civs... at the same time, I am gifting captured cities to weaker AI civs from other continents, just to mix things up. Side benefit, btw: The sole Berserker in the city gets teleported home!!!

when giving away the city were you able to get much in trade for them or do the AI opponents generally attach little trade value to captured cities you offer them?

	18-01-2005 07:15									#47
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Erk, you can't really trade off cities to the AI anymore... this is purely gifting. They do appreciate though.

	18-01-2005 08:21									#48
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Just to be mean I soemtime demand a crap city form a civ for peace and then gift it to someone else. Now one civ lost a city and the other has a new worthless one.

	18-01-2005 10:00									#49
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Yep, I do that too. Going to a point that Aeson made about getting GWs, I like to foster unstable geopolitical conditions... distract the AIs, as it were.

	20-01-2005 11:20									#50
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sorry for being late to the party.... but you guys do realize that OLD (usually also obsolete) wonders give you tourism income? Pyramids can give up up to 20 gold per turn late in the game. Not sure of exact figures, since i'ts been a while since i've played.....


Razing old wonders would be stupid IMO. The money is worth it

	20-01-2005 12:03									#51
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Really, so I captured this city from Zululand and it is on a contient that they have all to themself. They have more than twice my culture, so you think it would be smart to try to hold onto that city?

Say it only has 11 resisters and oh BTW, each of the tiles in this captured cities border has at least 60 units on it and some more than 100. I would be stupid to raze?

Oh and if I capture it and hold it they will probably hit me with well over 100 units for then 5 or 6 turns, but I should hold it, after all I could get maybe 20 gold per turn?

If I was so foolish as to raze it, they will not attack me at all, but I would be stupid to raze it?

My point is not that you are wrong, but that there are many things to consider.

	20-01-2005 14:00									#52
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You could always do a palace jump into said city if you happen to have an extra leader

Normally, captured wonder cities are too far away from your core anyway. The corruption removes most of the tourist-gold

	20-01-2005 14:31									#53
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quote: Originally posted by bongo You could always do a palace jump into said city if you happen to have an extra leader Normally, captured wonder cities are too far away from your core anyway. The corruption removes most of the tourist-gold

is a palace jump with an extra leader just your standard palace relocation using the leader to rush it in one turn?

	20-01-2005 15:43									#54
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I rarely do palace jumps but I have used a MGL for that purpose at least once.


One reason for moving your palace there is that capitols never flip

	20-01-2005 19:49									#55
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No but it could be subjected to being captured in my scenario. By the time you are sure it is safe, it safe from flipping anyway.

This is because I am now razing all their cities.

	20-01-2005 20:36									#56
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It's all very situation dependant. As I don't play againt the AI anymore I have to worry more about competent defence than CFs

Besides, you may want to keep a wonder city just to sucker the AI into attacking you there