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Spacedragonblue
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I'm new, and I've noticed the debate over wether Israel (other names include judah and hebrews) should be a viable canidate for civ4. Heres my opinion:
1. Ancient Israel did have complex society, agriculture, religion, i.e characteristics of a civ.
2. The religion, and culture, of judaism, probobly the first monotheistic religion, has existed for thousands of years despite countless efforts to wipe it out
3. Israel has had many great leaders, past and present. Some argue that many ancient Israeli leaders are myths, but on the other hand, a lot of the things said about other leaders can't be proved or disproved, but most likely have some root in truth (think King Arthur, Joan d'Arc, Hiawitha)
4. Some posts point out that Israel was not always a united state. Well, classical Greece (which is the Grecian culture we normally think about) wasn't unified. That happened after the Macedonians invaded. In case you didn't know, Alexander was Macedonian. Futher more, modern Israel is a united country.
5. Israel has had quite a few achievements, like the temple of Solomon (which has never been concretely proven, but neither has any of the 7 wonders, save the pyramids) In more modern times, the Israelis managed to create a strong economy, even though there is little arable land. Israel also has a very powerful army. Many people argue Israel's army is mostly craft from other countries. I don't believe this is a fair point because:
A. Many past armies have borrowed from others and
B. Many units are built by Israel.
In fact, Israel is a very advanced country in terms of science and medicine. My grandmother mentioned to me that, before cellphones were common in the U.S., they were quite common in Israel, which even had many cellphone rental businesses. Isreal has also resisted many invasions from others, which included a sneak attack on the very day it was founded. I'm not saying Israel always did the right thing (and i'm jewish!), but it's obvious they have been able to hold their own quite well, even in a condition where suicide bombings aren't uncommon.
In conclusion, Israel should be included in civ4, in my opinion under the following:
Name:Hebrews (covors full scope of Isreal's history/culture)
Leader: either David, Solomon, David ben Gurion or Golda Mier
Attributes: Religous and Scientific
Color: Royal blue/white
I hope this is a good start. Be back soon.
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kolpo
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There new religion system could be both a reason to include it and to exclude it, let me explain:
If they include Israel shall they need to add a new religion to the game that is only used by 1 civ. But on the other hand can you say that a religion system without jews is incomplete because they played a major role in the creation of 2 of the other religions who shall quite certainly be included: Christianity and Islam. The heavier focus on religion in civ4 shall make Israel relatively more important.
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Brent
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If they were to use a system of 20 points divided among the eight Civ3 Traits, how would they be divided for Israel? (I would think no civ would neccessarily have points assigned to each Trait, and probably the minimum number of Traits with points would be two).
What would the preferred government be? Monarchy? Theocracy? Democracy?
What would AI governors build often?
I would see the importance of religion in the game mainly as a reason to include Israel. And why couldn't Judaism spread to other Civs?
I believe it should be in simply because it is significant to so many people.
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Spacedragonblue
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I probably should've looked over the specs of civ4 a bit more. Well, other traits could be commercial, agricultural and militaristic (maybe). AI governors could build religous or technological things, with a second primary on military or agriculture. Government would be either Monarchy (ancient) or democracy (later). Shunned government would be facism (hitler was a facist, right?). Almost forgot about a special unit. Well, I see 3 possibilities:
a. A slingshot thrower (like king david). This would replace either warrior or archer.
b. I really don't know much about any military, but the Israeli air force has quite a few powerful (made in Israel) planes (their air power is one of their greatest strengths.
c. The Israel army, for obvious reasons, is highly adapted to the desert. They could have desert units that have higher defense that could replace any of several defensive units from pikeman all the way to modern armored units.
Speaking of adaptibility, that's a subject I've never seen anyone mention. I think gameplay would be made interesting if some uu's were adapted for certain terrain. They could have some bonus that only went into effect in certain terrain, but would give them a large advantage(how about two bonus points instead of one?). The rest of the time they wouldn't have any bonuses over the unit they replace. Tell me what you think>
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29-12-2004 03:30
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