29-12-2004 09:04									#1
	Helicopters and Strategic Value Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ok, honestly, who here has ever really used Helicopters? Are they a waste of time and money? I understand what they do, but I was wondering how valueable they are to a military, esp when they come so late in the game and most fighting occurs with Mechanized units! So, my main question about these hardly talked about units is this: Are they worth the time and money? And if so, What is the best ways to use them?

I would appreciate any feedback and personal expirences involving Helicopters and their counterparts. THANKS!

	29-12-2004 10:51									#2
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Well Theseus actually had the AI land a helo in a game.

	29-12-2004 11:09									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I have never used helicoptors, but here is what I guess you could do with them.

If say, a strategic resource, like aluminum, is in your enemies territory, but is close to your border, then you could load 3 TWO infantry onto a helicoptor and drop them onto the square. While this is basically the same thing as paratroopers, the TWO infantry would have better defenses at 14, compared to the defence of 11 (I think) for modern paratroopers. Also, TWO infantry bombard units that attack them...

Personally, I like dropping in a couple missiles and nukes, but that's just me...

	30-12-2004 01:29									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I've used them a few times during late wars (I'm more of a builder) to control small islands with airbases rather than building unproductive cities. They work well if you want to transport units large distances quickly. A combination of air units, TOW Infantry, and Paratroopers can be very powerful.

	31-12-2004 04:36									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Well Theseus actually had the AI land a helo in a game.

Yeah... the Babs landed a Bowman!!

Actually, at the end of AU 505, the last AI civ did a pretty good landing of two TOW Infantry on a hill next to an empty city... I was impressed (of course my 200 Modern Armor were, uh, slightly more impressive ).

	31-12-2004 04:49									#6
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If Helicopters could travel on Carriers, they would be a lot more interesting (yes, I mean load onto Carriers while they themselves carry units).

As they are, I'm having a very difficult time putting them to good use in AU505 (I'm making a point of using every single Modern era unit).

	31-12-2004 05:10									#7
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The best use I've found for helicopters is rebasing them to move units. Even then, it's a shortcut except for a handful of situations, such as fortifying a city with infantry or marines that's completely inside enemy culture and needs help immediately.

	31-12-2004 06:26									#8
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I really like them in Civ2, but they were too strong for that game. So I was not sad to see them changed, but it seems senseless to have units in the game with no apparent use.

	31-12-2004 07:01									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae If Helicopters could travel on Carriers, they would be a lot more interesting (yes, I mean load onto Carriers while they themselves carry units).

Agreed... there is soooo much more that could be done with units and vessels.

BTW, the KAI in AU505 just also jumped 4 Spec Forces next to the aforementioned empty town!! Cool!! (FYI, Spec Forces are the peak upgrade to the Marine and Paratrooper lines in the AU Mod).

	31-12-2004 18:32									#10
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Once, a helo transporting something, or doing recon, shot down an intercepting fighter...

But transporting units to far away cities is nice.

Another somewhat useless unit is paratroopers... By the time you get them, everybody has railroads, and if you drop them to a resource/luxury, they get smashed. Now, if they could do something on the same turn... I mean, that's what they are for, wreaking havoc in the back of the enemy, distrupting supply lines etc. Pillaging the road/railroad would be ideal.

I did manage to make them semi-usefull with "slight" modding...

quote: I modded the paratrooper to be able to carry foot units. That way, you can paradrop to an area, and then activate the unit "inside" the trooper, and attack/defend/whatever with it. Think of it as giving you basic foot unit a parachute. And I quess one can make them 0/0 Attack/defence, and 0 maintenance... Unfortunately, I doubt AI can utilize these...

	31-12-2004 19:12									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Helicopters are transportation units- you can airlift without having an airport by rebasing the loaded chopper, and you can use them to ferry light forces to obscure areas, in times were doing sea lift of waiting to move some big stack of armor and mech inf. is useless.

	01-01-2005 12:25									#12
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So, instead of dropping off units in one turn, can you pick up units in the field and bring them back in one turn? Does the game allow that?

	02-01-2005 08:03									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I was about to ask the very same thing: Is it possible to evac units out of a fire zone and bring them home? That alone may be worth having a few helicopters in the air in my mind. Has anyone done/seen this occur in the game?


(P.S. Vietnam was fought this way so i would assume they would want to include it, right?)

HISTORY NUTS UNIT!

	02-01-2005 11:42									#14
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Dang, if only a way could be found to make tanks and such require more support, then we'd be in the good old days with marines and paratroopers. Really, you might as well just build modern armors and be through with it...

	02-01-2005 16:07									#15
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Don't think I ever built a helicopter in the Epic game.

Have built some Heli-equivalent units in mods. They get real valuable when, like in MoM, they can transport top attackers, while no airport equivalent is available.

	02-01-2005 18:06									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Commy So, instead of dropping off units in one turn, can you pick up units in the field and bring them back in one turn? Does the game allow that?

Nope, your Apocalypse just got postponed from Now to Never.




I've been thinking, one can enable "rebasing" to ground unit, and even sea units... (Once made all of my modern sea-units, up from destroyer, able to rebase, in order to mimic the increased speed, reliability and range off modern units... It doesn't take years for a carrier fleet to go around the globe, right?)

Anyways, I'm thinking one could have the paratrooper units be able to rebase, I believe it works independantly of where the unit is, so one could jump into enemy territory, wreac havoc, and rebase back to friendly city.

I'm doubtfull if AI could use such features, though.

	03-01-2005 01:15									#17
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First, modify Airport so it does NOT produce Veteran Air Units. Now you cannot airlift from them and it is better that air units EARN their vet status anyway. Let your capital and FP produce vet air (and provide upgrades).

Second, build helicopters (still foot units only), because otherwise you're going by slowboat!

The AI never airlifted anyway -- DID they?

	03-01-2005 08:51									#18
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Ah, come on you guys, you mean to tell me you don't like using your good old galleys to get those tanks over there so you can kill someone?

	04-01-2005 04:09									#19
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Maybe if the helo had significantly greater range than a paratrooper it would be useful. I experiment with this in the mods I make for myself. The question is, though, does this give the human too much advantage over the AI...

	08-01-2005 12:32									#20
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I don't usually even research the tech; if aiming for a late-game win, I usually skip most or all optional techs after ancient (yes, sometimes I even skipped knights; I know they're the best unit of the time, but if I'm not planning to start a war at that point I can usually get by fine without them). That helps me keep up with the AI on the hard settings.