03-01-2005 02:21									#31
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Dissident: JA2 is pretty old now... the graphics may turn you off. It's also considerably harder than the original games (JA and DG).

But I don't really care about either of those facts, I still think it's a great game. Tactical TBS. If you're bored, go for it.

	03-01-2005 13:00									#32
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I will have to upgrade my very old Wintel gig first.

	03-01-2005 13:18									#33
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quote: Originally posted by VJ Dissident: JA2 is pretty old now... the graphics may turn you off. It's also considerably harder than the original games (JA and DG). But I don't really care about either of those facts, I still think it's a great game. Tactical TBS. If you're bored, go for it.

The graphics are old, but they are still pleasant to look at. Not ugly by any means. There are quite a few mods you can download to add to the experience too. There is a whole lot of information out for it too. Even though it's a hard game, there are detailed walkthroughs and strategies for every single sector. I'd say JA2 is still quite unsurpassed in terms of squad combat games.

	03-01-2005 14:20									#34
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Great game (though I don't see it mentioned here on a quick skim through), steep learning curve. Expect to die. A lot.

	03-01-2005 15:13									#35
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Well, the basic learning curve isn't that high. And there are people who are good enough who are able to go through many sectors without getting guys injured. They usually just have very small squads of stealthier mercs though.

	03-01-2005 17:57									#36
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Well I disagree. The JA series, whilst excellent when you get into it, is unforgiving and always difficult for new players. It is even often cited as *the* example of a game with a steep learning curve.

	03-01-2005 21:39									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike . It is even often cited as *the* example of a game with a steep learning curve.

And you an economist. Please review the definition of learning curve, and what a steep one means

	03-01-2005 22:02									#38
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game wishlists.

Well it depends on wheter I get a new PC to replace my old abacus - oops, my dino PC. Previously unexpected, and uninsured, root canal work for QOTM, and expenditures relative to POTM's Bat Mitzvan, have again delayed that. So two wish lists

For the new PC
1. EU2
2. The Sims (I know, but it would be for POTM, MAINLY)
3. Civ3
4. AOE2 (yeah, I know it should run on my old machine, but theres some funny copy protection conflict)
5. Simcity4


For the old PC
1. Yet another classic TBS, probably MoM, or maybe X-com
2. A classic RTS, probably Starcraft
3. A wargame, whatever I see around cheap.
4. BG2
5. An adventure game
6. Tropico

	04-01-2005 00:48									#39
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark And you an economist. Please review the definition of learning curve, and what a steep one means

The 'learning curve' shows how gently the game introduces you to the resources at your disposal to meet your objectives, and how it punishes you for not using those resources optimally.

A steep learning curve is one where the introduction is short and the punishment is harsh.

	04-01-2005 01:23									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike The 'learning curve' shows how gently the game introduces you to the resources at your disposal to meet your objectives, and how it punishes you for not using those resources optimally. A steep learning curve is one where the introduction is short and the punishment is harsh.

A learning curve (or experience curve) represents the rate at which the cost per unit declines with experience. A steep learning curve implies one learns quickly. A shallow learning curve implies one learns slowly. A steep learning curve is, holding initial difficulty (cost per unit) constant, a GOOD thing.

Of course in the econ. lit its assumed that you are producing the SAME thing as you gain experience. A game that adds features as you go doesnt really fit the paradigm. What you mean is a game that adds features or difficulty quickly, not one that has a steep learning curve.

Your usage IS the way its commonly used in the gaming community. The gaming community is, unfortunately, incorrect.

	04-01-2005 02:08									#41
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I was making a gaming point using gaming terminology. When making a point about economics I use economics terminology.

	04-01-2005 02:14									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I was making a gaming point using gaming terminology. When making a point about economics I use economics terminology.

The term originated in economics, or more precisely, in cost estimation (unlike say shortage, which had its non-economics use before economics twisted it "shortage, what shortage, theres plenty available now that the price went up a thousand fold"). Most folks, gamers and othewise, who use it think theyre borrowing a sophisticated term from elsewhere (I mean who the hell talks about "curves" in gaming, or other nontechnical matters) They ARE, theyve just flipped the meaning. See its NOT a gaming term, its a GENERAL misuse of the term.

Such abuse should be squashed

	04-01-2005 02:39									#43
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I empathise with your position, I really do. However, if I were to say the game had a steep learning curve with an asterisk explaining why in fact the phrase is generally misused I'd waste my free time doing what I do all day anyway.

	04-01-2005 05:52									#44
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ummm..so its safe to say that the game has/had a certain appeal to a small group?

(This J/A-DG)

I understand...I have had so many long nights and wore out two CD's of CTP..even though not many people like it..I do..and thats why I play it..

Peace

Gramps

	04-01-2005 06:01									#45
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Well I disagree. The JA series, whilst excellent when you get into it, is unforgiving and always difficult for new players. It is even often cited as *the* example of a game with a steep learning curve.

Meh...most people I know were able to get into it.

I'd say the paradox games are generally much more difficult.

	04-01-2005 07:48									#46
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I'd just like to get my Diablo 2 cd to install properly.

	05-01-2005 07:51									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I'd just like to get my Diablo 2 cd to install properly.

must be me tired eyes but old ann aint nearly as appealing as she once wuz..

of course nor am I..