06-01-2005 05:14									#211
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Al'Kimiya Nah.. I like discipline

But did you agree with claims such as:

quote: Our race has many superior qualities, compared with other races

quote: All people have their rights, but it is better for all of us that different sorts of people should keep to their own kind.

quote: People with serious inheritable disabilities should not be allowed to reproduce.

quote: A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system.

quote: Mothers may have careers, but their first duty is to be homemakers.

quote: I would not wish to send my child to a school that did not instill religious values.

quote: Sex outside marriage is usually immoral.

?

(Edit: and yes, it's possible to score very high on the authoritarianism scale. I entered Taliban mode and got a 9.54 )

	06-01-2005 05:18									#212
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: It's not a question if children should be able to keep secrets. It's a question if children keeping secrets from their parents is a natural occurance. This can be confirmed easily through simple observation.

Yeah, it's poor questions like this that mitigate my authoritarian stances.

This question shows that the test believes natural impulses ought to be done (which is a leftist assumption,) and one of the primary reasons why so many slope to the left off this poll.

A better question, would be to ask:

Should children keep secrets from their parents?

Or another, should gay people act on their sexual impulses?

That would get a double negative for me, rather than a double positive.

	06-01-2005 05:22									#213
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Our race has many superior qualities, compared with other races

disagree

quote: All people have their rights, but it is better for all of us that different sorts of people should keep to their own kind.

agree

quote: People with serious inheritable disabilities should not be allowed to reproduce.

stongly agree

quote: A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system.

strongly agree

quote: Mothers may have careers, but their first duty is to be homemakers.

agree

quote: I would not wish to send my child to a school that did not instill religious values.

strongly disagree

quote: Sex outside marriage is usually immoral.

agree

	06-01-2005 05:23									#214
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Our race has many superior qualities, compared with other races

Strongly disagree

quote: All people have their rights, but it is better for all of us that different sorts of people should keep to their own kind.

Strongly disagree

quote: People with serious inheritable disabilities should not be allowed to reproduce.

Not hard. Strongly disagree.

quote: A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system.

Strongly disagree.

quote: Mothers may have careers, but their first duty is to be homemakers.

Disagree.

quote: I would not wish to send my child to a school that did not instill religious values.

This is a poor question. The question should be worded in the positive:

"I want to send my child to a school that instills religious values."

Which elicits a strongly agree from me.

quote: Sex outside marriage is usually immoral.

Again, strongly agree.

	06-01-2005 05:27									#215
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Al Kimiya:

The religious education question is a double negative. So by disagreeing, you have a triple negative, and hence, do not wish your child to go to a school that teaches religious education.

quote: People with serious inheritable disabilities should not be allowed to reproduce. stongly agree

What disabilities do you consider 'serious?'

	06-01-2005 05:36									#216
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Al Kimiya: The religious education question is a double negative. So by disagreeing, you have a triple negative, and hence, do not wish your child to go to a school that teaches religious education. What disabilities do you consider 'serious?'

I understand the question. I'm not very religious myself and while I do understand some of the benefits of such a schooling system (discipline related), I do not wish to impose a specific faith to the child.

With serious disabilities I consider mental and physical illnesses serious enough to hinder good parenting. There should never be the situation where the child has to parent the parent. I think there should also be some kind of parenting test before allowing people to be parents, kind of like a drivers license.

	06-01-2005 05:39									#217
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system.

This is a stupid question. That is an advantage of a one-party state, but it's not an advocation of one.

	06-01-2005 05:47									#218
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat This is a stupid question. That is an advantage of a one-party state, but it's not an advocation of one.

Depends. I consider the arguments inherent to a democracy to be a good thing for example. Wiping them out, in my view, is a disadvantage.

	06-01-2005 05:55									#219
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: With serious disabilities I consider mental and physical illnesses serious enough to hinder good parenting.

That's an interesting response.

I am hard of hearing, and find it difficult to hear people in another room from me, same as my dad, and his sister.

So what they do is they don't let their kids out of their sight.

I agree with you, that it should never happen for a child to parent his parents, while still a child, but it does happen, and often has nothing to do with a physical disability.

quote: I think there should also be some kind of parenting test before allowing people to be parents, kind of like a drivers license.

Or what? The state would take their children away?

	06-01-2005 05:55									#220
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I didn't like that question either Immortal Wombat.

	06-01-2005 05:59									#221
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

How about this:

One party systems are better for democracy, in expediting the decisions of the state.

	06-01-2005 06:05									#222
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Or what? The state would take their children away?

Well, some kind of punishment must be in order to minimize the occurances (a fine, prison/castration for repeating). Regarding the child, I think it should be adopted rather than aborted. There are probably "good" parents unable to have children of their own.

	06-01-2005 06:08									#223
	Remove this text

quote: Well, some kind of punishment must be in order to minimize the occurances. Regarding the child, I think it should be adopted rather than aborted. There are probably "good" parents unable to have children of their own.

True, but an unintended consequence of your decision is going to be the forced abortion of these children, because of the clause of 'inheritable' defects.

Why allow their children to be born at all, when they are afflicted with the same disorder?

	06-01-2005 06:14									#224
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi True, but an unintended consequence of your decision is going to be the forced abortion of these children, because of the clause of 'inheritable' defects. Why allow their children to be born at all, when they are afflicted with the same disorder?

I'm not only talking about inheritable disorders here. I think economy is an important criteria, as well as (a non-existant?) criminal record, drug/alcohol abuse related things etc..

Forced abortions are a symptom of a larger problem with discipline that must be dealt with in other ways. I'm not against abortions if they have a good excuse (underage parenthood, rape).

	06-01-2005 06:15									#225
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi How about this: One party systems are better for democracy, in expediting the decisions of the state.

It's the same thing. I don't understand how this determines if you are authoritarian or libertarian social.

	06-01-2005 06:22									#226
	Tired of ads?

quote: I don't understand how this determines if you are authoritarian or libertarian social.

A liberal authoritarian would use a one party state, as a vehicle to enforce liberal ideals. The same thing with a conservative authoritarian. The idea is that a one party state, enables the state to clamp down on dissent in all forms, to a much greater deal than a multi-party system.

A libertarian would crave the political discourse and discussion found in a multi-party system, as an important check on the power of the state, and an increase in the rights of an individual.

Make sense?

	06-01-2005 06:23									#227
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi One party systems are better for democracy, in expediting the decisions of the state.

I don't think the statement would be better. I'd expect more people to say no because of the question's flaw (because most of us people living in a democracy have learned to dissociate democracy from one-party systems) than currently.

	06-01-2005 06:28									#228
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think rewording the question brings out the real issue. What is more important in a democracy? Smooth running of the state, or checks and balances? You can find cases of both in democratic states.

	06-01-2005 06:54									#229
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Spiffor
However, you plunge in another problem : people will often not have the same opinion of left/wing, authoritarian/libertarian, or whatever than the pollster.
For example, I cannot even understand why Oerdin is on the center-left on the economic scale. It strikes me as completely absurd, considering that he is an outspoken supporter of the free market and of fire-at-will practices, while he considers European like welfare system to be bloat that should be heavily purged.[/q]

The reason is stupidly biased questions like "If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations." No one (well, maybe some ) is going to say "oh, I want transnational corporations to benefit over humanity!" The problem is that the basic assumption of the question, that there is a fundamental, necessary conflict between the two, is heavily slanted towards the left. Then there's "What's good for the most successful corporations is always, ultimately, good for all of us." That's absurd - what would be 'good' for corporations would be the ability to steal people off the street and keep them as slaves. But simply thinking that corporations should be bound by the same laws by which individuals are bound certainly doesn't make you a lefty.

quote: The difference is that income is already measured. You know that you earn 30,000$ a year. You know that you are 36. You know that you have a BA (which is the usual measure of education, for all its flaws). You don't know that you're -5.42 on economic and -2.30 on social matters.

You do know that you are in favor, or not in favor, of government regulation of, say, news broadcasts to keep them "factual", which may be completely separate from whether or not you think they are too much entertainment and too little information right now. You do know whether you think people should be allowed to have sex out of marriage, which may be completely separate from whether you think it is moral.

	06-01-2005 06:55									#230
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi A liberal authoritarian would use a one party state, as a vehicle to enforce liberal ideals. The same thing with a conservative authoritarian. The idea is that a one party state, enables the state to clamp down on dissent in all forms, to a much greater deal than a multi-party system. A libertarian would crave the political discourse and discussion found in a multi-party system, as an important check on the power of the state, and an increase in the rights of an individual. Make sense?

Even that breaks down when you consider people like DF and elijah, who'd be just as happy under a monarchy as long as they were guaranteed their rights.

	06-01-2005 06:57									#231
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker The reason is stupidly biased questions like "If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations." No one (well, maybe some ) is going to say "oh, I want transnational corporations to benefit over humanity!"

	06-01-2005 07:00									#232
	Full PM-box? Change here!

psst... I wasn't talking about you

	06-01-2005 07:02									#233
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You are mistaken. You were talking about me.



The reason I said "strongly disagree" was because I strongly disagreed with the premise that those interests are opposed.

	06-01-2005 07:10									#234
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi A liberal authoritarian would use a one party state, as a vehicle to enforce liberal ideals. The same thing with a conservative authoritarian. The idea is that a one party state, enables the state to clamp down on dissent in all forms, to a much greater deal than a multi-party system. A libertarian would crave the political discourse and discussion found in a multi-party system, as an important check on the power of the state, and an increase in the rights of an individual. Make sense?

But you can be in favor of a multi party system and still believe that one party systems are more efficient.

	06-01-2005 07:11									#235
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

How come you're on here Ben? I thought you would be busy fuming at your television, given that the Morgentaler movie is on tonight.

Have you written an outraged letter of complaint yet?

	06-01-2005 07:13									#236
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Even that breaks down when you consider people like DF and elijah, who'd be just as happy under a monarchy as long as they were guaranteed their rights.

	06-01-2005 07:13									#237
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Kuciwalker is right. This test is pretty screwed up.

	06-01-2005 07:16									#238
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Again, the test is meant to be general. If it suited you guys, most people wouldn't see the questions as relevant and wouldn't take the test.

	06-01-2005 07:17									#239
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat quote: A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system. This is a stupid question. That is an advantage of a one-party state, but it's not an advocation of one.

There is one big flaw in this. It demands that decisions made by a one-party state are the right ones, but history has proven well that that isn't the case - quite opposite. With democracy there are at least a chance to stop the worst mistakes.

	06-01-2005 07:44									#240
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by BlackCat quote: This is a stupid question. That is an advantage of a one-party state, but it's not an advocation of one. There is one big flaw in this. It demands that decisions made by a one-party state are the right ones, but history has proven well that that isn't the case - quite opposite. With democracy there are at least a chance to stop the worst mistakes.

No. It assumes that neither one party systems or multiparty systems come to better decisions, but that one party systems make decisions with less delay.