21-01-2005 06:01									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

For warmonger, religious civ (Civ3v1.29f), conquest (example Iroquois), I like:

Despotism ==> Monarchy ==> Democracy ==> Communism

I turn research off after learning a few key techs, buying or intimidating conquered civs for tech until I acquire Democracy. I still don't turn research on until I have all universities in place in key cities. Then after buying my tech lead, I shoot for tech leader, occasionally selling non strategic tech.

Long wars required for conquest ultimately shut down the Democracy, so it becomes necessary to either make peace (oscillating war) or switch to Communism. It depends on what tech is required to complete the conquest (e.g., tanks or modern armor). It can take an awfully long time to research modern armor under communism, while fighting non-stop war, but it is eventually reached.

So I put Monarchy, because I am a warmonger and in the deciding ancient age, it rules, as it is difficult to keep your people happy enough in Republic without having the temples in place, etc. Give me a barracks, not a temple.

Last edited by Shaka II on 21-01-2005 at 06:24

	21-01-2005 19:48									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

That's a lot of government switches for a non-religious civ.

-Arrian

	21-01-2005 19:54									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Have you tried Feudalism in place of Monarcy?

I don't find a need for protracted wars when bonking AI in the ancient/medieval, personally. Feudalism's MP's can take care of WW easily enough for 30 turns or so, more than enough to sue for tech/land as you seem to like.

I typically would go Desp-->Feud-->Communism/Fascism (for kicks) myself. The game is typically 'over' except for the exercise of playing it out long before Communism though.

The only downside to Feudalism would be if you like cash rushing, which it sounds like you might. Personally prefer pop rushing temples in conquered cities to cash rushing improvements at home...

	21-01-2005 22:44									#64
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Democracy=Anarchy with bananas, so I had trouble choosing.
I'm mostly concerned with production, so I lean towards democracy in most games, after I've got replacement parts.
Some games don't get that far and I end as a republic.
I never use fascism nor feudalism, and monarchy only rarely.

	22-01-2005 23:09									#65
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dominae * Dominae blushes

borrgs can do that ?!

now i AM scared ...

	22-01-2005 23:14									#66
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by lebensraum pull out that one, pop in a friend's cd drive and it says my hard drive's failed

d'oh .. re-jumpered friend's cd-drive to ide-slave

now there's sparks coming out the back of the machine
hmm, this could take some time

ed: oh and the monitor's blown
... i had a cortina like this once

	27-01-2005 23:56									#67
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I agree with Arrian. Go straight for Republic and build like crazy, get ahead in techs and build massive amounts of cavalry before your neighbors and most times seek revenge on past attacks.

P.S. - I'm brand new to the civ forum and usually play on regent or monarch.

	28-01-2005 00:25									#68
	Support Apolyton

Welcome arnoldvsgooch

	28-01-2005 22:07									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

There are no absolutes in Civ, but by my estimates, in order for it to be worthwhile to change from a republic to a democracy in a non-religious civ, you have to have at least 80-110 turns of peace, or at least of no war weariness. That's the minimum amount of time before the extra money from having a democracy pays for the cost of going through anarchy and you start really making a profit on the switch. For this reason, it's usually not worthwhile to go democracy if you're on pangea. However, if you have your own continent to yourself, if you are willing to go to extremes in order to avoid any war weariness, by fighting purely defensive wars, and are going for a space ship victory, you can create a situation where it’s worthwhile to go democracy. It's still pretty risky, but you can sometimes get away with it.

	31-01-2005 21:35									#70
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Don't forget the two optional techs that must be obtained to even get to Democracy. The AI won't trade the Democracy tech at all until much later so you'll waste an additional 4 turns minimum to research it. Considering that your alternative research choices at the time are things like Magnetism, Economics, Navigation, and Military Tradition, I can never find a good reason to go after it.

	31-01-2005 22:16									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Misconception here: The AI will always trade a tech with you IF you have enough assets to make it worth the AIs worthwhile. Note that you may have to fool the AI by turning off research, contacting them, and then turning back on reserch if you plan to run a defict and also that AI attitude towards you can make a big difference, and if your including tech(s) how far along they are resarching the item being sold is also a factor.

The real issue is that the AI highly values all govt techs to the point where it's often less costly in gold to research it yourself.

If you do beat the AI to a govt tech, you can often bankrupt them selling it to them for the same reason.

quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Don't forget the two optional techs that must be obtained to even get to Democracy. The AI won't trade the Democracy tech at all until much later so you'll waste an additional 4 turns minimum to research it. Considering that your alternative research choices at the time are things like Magnetism, Economics, Navigation, and Military Tradition, I can never find a good reason to go after it.

	01-02-2005 02:47									#72
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Misconception here: The AI will always trade a tech with you IF you have enough assets to make it worth the AIs worthwhile.

Agreed. I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole. I think it is safe to say that most players are not willing to pay the AI for new government techs since the AI values them highly. Therefore, along with around 7 turns of anarchy, you have a minimum of 4 turns of research to get Democracy. That's 11 turns of lost research.

quote: If you do beat the AI to a govt tech, you can often bankrupt them selling it to them for the same reason.

The AI tends not be as cash rich in the Middle Ages. I find them much more willing to cough up gold in the Industrial Age.

	01-02-2005 03:44									#73
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

In my games, I find the AI willing to pay more GPT when we're all in the middle ages / I'm in the Industrail age and their still in Middle Ages.

By the time the AI reaches the Industrail era, the AI notices how far behind it is an panicks by devoting 100% to science, drying up any deals.

	01-02-2005 04:17									#74
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by gunkulator The AI tends not be as cash rich in the Middle Ages. I find them much more willing to cough up gold in the Industrial Age.

This depends highly on the difficulty level, and on the AI (not) being at war. On Demigod, you can get first gpt deals in the late Ancient Age already. If you have anything to trade so early, that is...

I don't see the AI changing to research, not if I can help it. Starting the usual world war is often enough to keep them at bay. The biggest AIs will still be able to pay some cash (much less than at peace), and everyone (but me) will have very little research going on.

	01-02-2005 06:45									#75
	Tired of ads?

Very level dependant. At sid I do not see the AI with any gold once they get much into the middle ages for the rest of the game, unless one civ becomes a real KAI.

They use all they have for maint to the point that they have to disband units to stay at zero gold.

	02-02-2005 04:58									#76
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Don't forget the two optional techs that must be obtained to even get to Democracy. The AI won't trade the Democracy tech at all until much later so you'll waste an additional 4 turns minimum to research it. Considering that your alternative research choices at the time are things like Magnetism, Economics, Navigation, and Military Tradition, I can never find a good reason to go after it.

Well, the AI usually researches it fairly early, so usually by the end of the middle ages every AI player will have it. If everyone else has a tech, there are often ways to get it that don't cost you very much; demanding it from an AI who you beat in a war, trading it for a few extra resources and a little gold to a civ who wouldn't have the money to pay you for the resources otherwise, or picking it up when you develop a new tech none of the AI's have and then trade it to all of the AI's; I take money from the rich AI's, and whatever I can get from the others. One way or the other, I usually seem to end up with democracy by the end of the middle ages, which is just about where I would want it anyway, because if I am going to go democracy, I want it before I build my railroad network, to speed up my workers and get the railroad network built much sooner then it otherwise would have been built.

	10-02-2005 22:42									#77
	Remove this text

I tend to stay despot for quite a long time. There's usually not enough time for switching given that I'm almost constantly at war with someone else and always in the race for crucial wonders (Leo, Sun Tzu, Miche or Bach). Way in the middle ages I switch to one of monarchy, republic or feudalism (rarely) and stay there for the rest of the game.

	15-02-2005 22:11									#78
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Arrian That's a lot of government switches for a non-religious civ. -Arrian

Yes, this is probably no good for a nonreligous civ. That's why I mentioned playing Iroquois. Also, playing vanilla.

Every game is different, and depending on the civ characteristics and style of play, so the government choices are variable.

I would probably still go with Monarchy ==> Democracy and choose to fight oscillating war, if I was playing a nonreligous civ, to avoid that extra switch to Communism. Just means a shift in style of fighting to making larger armies to fight shorter battles, instead of a constant warfare. Probably there would be less of an effect on research that way too.