05-01-2005 01:56									#31
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 If you had children you would feel differently about this matter.

I have a child. I wouldn't feel any more or less safe knowing there was or was not a registered sex offender within a block/mile/10 miles. I am scared witless regarding all the POSSIBLE dangers in any event.

	05-01-2005 01:56									#32
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LOTM: Either way, I assume they committed a felony. Why is it in the state's interest to tend toward secrecy about a conviction presumably prosecuted at considerable expense to the state?

	05-01-2005 01:58									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Do you also favor having lists of former drug users who were busted circulated because they may give drugs to your kids?

Absolutely in favor of knowing who had been arrested for dealing within X number of yards of a school...

	05-01-2005 01:59									#34
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quote: Originally posted by DanS LOTM: Either way, I assume they committed a felony. Why is it in the state's interest to tend toward secrecy about a conviction presumably prosecuted at considerable expense to the state?

To improve likelihood of successful reintegration into society?

	05-01-2005 02:00									#35
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It's for the community to judge whether the felon should be integrated into the society, not the state.

	05-01-2005 02:02									#36
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Why would you tend toward secrecy in this case?

Because people misuse and abuse information, which is why we keepm medical records private.

	05-01-2005 02:05									#37
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 It is not vigilantism. Parole board members are human and can make mistakes in evaluating whether a sex offender has truly reformed and is eligible for parole. BTW, how do you truly reform a sex offender short of cutting his balls off? You can load him up with medicine while he is in jail and make him seem as if he is reformed, but once he is out, he doesnt have to take his medicine. If you had children you would feel differently about this matter.

And it is exactly people with children, who are not rational about the issue, who should not be making the decisions.

Its not an issue of "having kids", its an issue of making sure society and individuals both are safe- again, if child molestation is deemed so horrible a crime, then harsher punishment is warranted-but be upfront about punishment, instead of tyring to make shame a weapon.

	05-01-2005 02:07									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DanS It's for the community to judge whether the felon should be integrated into the society, not the state.

Not necessarily. The interests of the local community may conflict with those of the larger community. A local community may choose to ostracise a former drug user, on the off chance that he will "give out drugs" to minors. If he fails to integrate, he may well move elsewhere and commit more serious crimes elsewhere, and the cost for social service, lost potential tax revenues, and for renewed incarceration will all be borne by the larger community, via the state.

	05-01-2005 02:08									#39
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What's wrong with using the power of shame to help enforce the laws? It's used all the time in small towns and rural areas across the nation. Arrested for DUI? You will have your name in the local paper the next day -- everybody knows it.

	05-01-2005 02:09									#40
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And it is exactly people with children, who are not rational about the issue, who should not be making the decisions. Its not an issue of "having kids", its an issue of making sure society and individuals both are safe- again, if child molestation is deemed so horrible a crime, then harsher punishment is warranted-but be upfront about punishment, instead of tyring to make shame a weapon.

Of course this continues to assume that the response to this knowledge is further punishment. I guarantee you, if QOTM found out a neighbor was an ex-child molestor, running at him with a baseball bat would be about the LAST thing she'd do. ("OMG, what if attacks POTM to get revenge?")

	05-01-2005 02:15									#41
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GePap, i had a friend (may he rest in peace) who did federal time for taking a bribe, as a local politician. He lost his promising political career, his career as a lawyer, and his marriage. When he got out he rebuilt his life from the ground up - he began as an unskilled construction laborer, eventually became a developer, and even reentered public life in a minor capacity. He was the president of a synagogue i belonged to and a great guy (and BTW, more dovish than I am on Israel). He did this in front of a community where EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, knew what had happened. Youd have had to do serious damage to the first amendment to preserve his privacy. Sometimes thats life.


Im not sure why an ex-pedophile deserves more privacy than my friend.

	05-01-2005 02:20									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DanS What's wrong with using the power of shame to help enforce the laws?

Because that is what prison was for-to have the individual pay their due to society. The combination is the problem, because once you come out of prison and also out of parole, then that's it.

	05-01-2005 02:20									#43
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LOTM: Further, why should he be accorded more privacy just because he moved somewhere where people didn't know him or what he did?

	05-01-2005 02:24									#44
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Gepap wants a society where child molestors can live next door to you without your knowledge.

	05-01-2005 02:24									#45
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quote: Because that is what prison was for-to have the individual pay their due to society. The combination is the problem, because once you come out of prison and also out of parole, then that's it.

quote: Im not sure why an ex-pedophile deserves more privacy than my friend.

They don't. You don't think they get their names in the paper? Was your friend on a database dedicated to have people know he took a bribe if, say, he moved to another town?

	05-01-2005 02:28									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Gepap wants a society where child molestors can live next door to you without your knowledge.

Yes, exactly Cause I have no right to know that, and given that people like you exist, the dangers of desiminating that information should be obvious.

	05-01-2005 02:28									#47
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BTW, I am for stricter penalties also. WTF Gepap, I thought you were a liberal. Liberals are supposed to want information to be made available to the public.

I'm not seriously advocating vigilantism, that was just a troll. But the information should be legal and available. No question about it.

Now all of a sudden Gepap has become an advocate for child molerstors... what is up with that?

	05-01-2005 02:29									#48
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I oppose the idea of a Megan's Law in the first place- if we believe child molestation is so heinous a crime that a scarlet letter must be drawn on the perpetrators after they have served their prison sentence, then just make the required sentence life in prison. No half-assed or unfair subsitute.

Scarlet letters

	05-01-2005 02:29									#49
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quote: But the information should be legal and available.

Should you have the right to all of your neighbor's criminal history? Just in case?

	05-01-2005 02:30									#50
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Yes, exactly Cause I have no right to know that, and given that people like you exist, the dangers of desiminating that information should be obvious.

Records of criminal activities is public. What's wrong with already public information being made available?

And if it leads to vigilantism, then those responsible should be prosecuted as well.

What kind of sick secret society do you want to live in? Where criminals are protected by secrecy? Where honest law-abiding citizens can't know if they live next door to Jeffrey Dahmer???

	05-01-2005 02:30									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Sava lotm freedom of information dumbasses who want to make it so you can't find out if a child molestor lives next door

Something just occured to me - could one demand such information from prisons or the government under FOIA (of which I don't know the details)?

	05-01-2005 02:30									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But the information should be legal and available. Should you have the right to all of your neighbor's criminal history? Just in case?

Yes, and they should be able to know my criminal history.

The only exception I would make is for juvenile offenders.

	05-01-2005 02:30									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Because that is what prison was for-to have the individual pay their due to society. The combination is the problem, because once you come out of prison and also out of parole, then that's it. quote: Im not sure why an ex-pedophile deserves more privacy than my friend. They don't. You don't think they get their names in the paper? Was your friend on a database dedicated to have people know he took a bribe if, say, he moved to another town?

Didnt need to be. His whole life was in that city, and folks there didnt need a database to know.

So its ok to put it in the paper, and ok for the paper to have a searchable database. But if the STATE has a searchable database, thats a violation? Theyre violating privacy by making it easy to find something thats already a matter of public record (unlike, say, medical records)?


Seems to me this is less about privacy than about the assumption that parents of kids are loonies who will lynch ex child molestors.



A problem technology has given us. I dont see the answer as at all clear.

	05-01-2005 02:31									#54
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark GePap, i had a friend (may he rest in peace) who did federal time for taking a bribe, as a local politician. He lost his promising political career, his career as a lawyer, and his marriage. When he got out he rebuilt his life from the ground up - he began as an unskilled construction laborer, eventually became a developer, and even reentered public life in a minor capacity. He was the president of a synagogue i belonged to and a great guy (and BTW, more dovish than I am on Israel). He did this in front of a community where EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, knew what had happened. Youd have had to do serious damage to the first amendment to preserve his privacy. Sometimes thats life. Im not sure why an ex-pedophile deserves more privacy than my friend.

What are you talking about? Did your friend have to sign a registry by law so that everyone in the neighborhood would know what he did and know if he moved, and if he had moved, would everyone living there been informed of his infracture?

If not, then he had far more privacy than a sex-offender, pedophile or not, gets.

	05-01-2005 02:33									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Sava BTW, I am for stricter penalties also. WTF Gepap, I thought you were a liberal. Liberals are supposed to want information to be made available to the public. I'm not seriously advocating vigilantism, that was just a troll. But the information should be legal and available. No question about it. Now all of a sudden Gepap has become an advocate for child molerstors... what is up with that?

I am an advocate for rights- whoseever's rights.

A simple Lexis nexis search will show you if someone has a criminal record, as prison records I believe are part of the database. I know in NY you can search records of current inmates.

	05-01-2005 02:34									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Yes, and they should be able to know my criminal history. The only exception I would make is for juvenile offenders.

Why make an exception for juvenille offenders?

	05-01-2005 02:34									#57
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I am an advocate for rights- whoseever's rights. A simple Lexis nexis search will show you if someone has a criminal record, as prison records I believe are part of the database. I know in NY you can search records of current inmates.

So if the information is already public, why do you oppose someone simply making a list of certain types of offenders?

	05-01-2005 02:36									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Why make an exception for juvenille offenders?

IIRC, one's juvenile records are already sealed. I just support the status quo. People do dumb things when they are kids. It shouldn't be held against them.

But obviously the most heinous crimes should be treated differently.

	05-01-2005 02:38									#59
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quote: So its ok to put it in the paper, and ok for the paper to have a searchable database. But if the STATE has a searchable database, thats a violation? Theyre violating privacy by making it easy to find something thats already a matter of public record (unlike, say, medical records)?

A paper is reporting news. A state database is simply to identify people. If you want, you can dig and dig and find out the information. But I don't think the state should make it easier to find that information.

quote: Seems to me this is less about privacy than about the assumption that parents of kids are loonies who will lynch ex child molestors.

That is part of privacy though, isn't it?

	05-01-2005 02:39									#60
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quote: Should you have the right to all of your neighbor's criminal history? Just in case?

Of course. Why not?