05-01-2005 21:49									#1
	23 city limit for computer opponents Inflate your Upload Space

I've had a problem with all my computer opponents. They won't expand beyond 23 cities apiece, making them far too easy to beat. It's been many months since I've played so I may have the precise number wrong but it was close to that. This didn't vary depending on total cities, so it's not a reflection of the hard-wired 255 city limit. Any ideas or modifications to suggest??

	06-01-2005 00:18									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The AI's strategic limitations render any attempted fix a moot point.

	06-01-2005 04:23									#3
	thanks for responding Remove this text

thanks

	06-01-2005 16:58									#4
	Which limit ? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Welcome thespus666 !
I have never heard of the limit you refer to.
For example, have a look at the WW2 scenario: the Russians have 31 cities and the Axis has 24, at the beginning of the scenario.
Have a try

	06-01-2005 22:53									#5
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A scenario does not help in determining if the AI player won't build more than 23 - the scenario creator probably put those cities there. Letting an AI civ get very large has not been a problem in any of my recent games... even playing OCC I've rarely seen more than 12-15 max. Would be interesting if anyone has a save of a random start, single player game where an AI built 50-100 cities.

	07-01-2005 02:31									#6
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I can't recall ever seeing more than about 18 cities on a large map, but then again, I've never had any interest in letting the AI grow unabated.

Isn't there some sort of behavioral definition for an "expansionist" AI?

	07-01-2005 21:25									#7
	Thanks for the replies Full PM-box? Change here!

and welcomes.

	07-01-2005 21:25									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Yes, there is Expansionist versus Perfectionist, like the English compared to the Persians. Perhaps Thespus could start a test with the Romans, French (or Vikings), Spanish, English (or Greeks), and Mongols (all relatively aggressive Expansionist civs) on a large map with large islands. Choose Green or Cyan as the human color and leave the other color unused. Play a One City Challenge but don't launch the spaceship, just watch the AI civs develop (but squash any efforts to build Manhattan Project).

Hmmm, might be fun for a week in bed with the flu...

	08-01-2005 22:21									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

There is no 23 city limit that I am aware of. On gigamaps, I've seen AI nations with 40+ cities fairly often. Check some of the saves in any of the longer-running gigamap succession games - you'll see plenty of large AI empires.

I suspect that AIs with the 'expansionist' trait are only limited by the amount of terrain they can easily reach.

	08-01-2005 23:43									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Conquests will put them over. IIRC I've seen at least 1 time where the Russians had 31 cities on either a normal or large map.

What map size & land mass are you using?

	09-01-2005 15:35									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I am definitely sure there is no such limit.

Besides why would it be 23

256 cities (1 for none units), 2048 units, 8 civs (including barbarians), etc.

I think you get the picture

	09-01-2005 17:27									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This is my latest game, am playing a lazy conquest thingee. the egyptians def have more than 23 cities. therefore the limits are artificial.

Save game attached as evidence

Attachment: sc_a1806.sav
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	10-01-2005 23:34									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I've been using the large maps Never tried the gigamap thing. Might be a solution for me.

	17-01-2005 07:21									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have seen many instances of greater than 23 cities for the AI. Try usuing Zulu, Egyptian, Mongols for example.

Monk