11-01-2005 23:04									#121
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Drogue I never claimed that communism didn't pay you, you're misunderstanding my argument completely. However you are paid according to your labour, when it comes to wage rate, as I said. If you're only paid on capital, why does my brother, someone with very little capital but a good job, get paid more than my father, someone who has far more assets, but is retired, and thus get's far less income? You get income from capital by investing it, and you get income from labour by working. I made no comment about communism not paying. Please show me where my argument is wrong. However saying that you are paid solely for capital, and not at all paid for labour is ridiculous.

I misunderstood you. You said that capitalism pays you for the value of what you do. You meant things like saving and investing, not just working. I thought you meant just working. Communism pays you only for working, not saving or investing. Of course, both of them pay for work, but assuming that the same amount of work is done in both system communism pays more for work.

	11-01-2005 23:15									#122
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger BTW, communism is not equal wage rate.

Oh yes it is. If you don't have equal wages you have a bastardized form of communism.

	11-01-2005 23:27									#123
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Drogue However your comment that the free market results in greater inequality is not an "in practice" comment, as it's never been tried. The free market, a perfect free market, allocates income based on how good you are at your job - how much you're worth to your employer. So it's distributed by abilit, perfectly, with nothing to do with need. Thus while it would be unequal, it would be fair and unequal. I don't think it's a good idea for a country to have a totally free market at all, but that is what a free market is, and since it hasn't ever been tried, we can't say it's effect "in practice", just in theory. If you wish to make comments about economics ignoring reality, please study some economics first so you know what it is that is ignoring reality.

You're assuming that a free market would be perfect. There's a reason it isn't tried, because know one really believes that it would work. His comment is true. Free markets, as they are in practice, result in inequality. In theory they should result in equality since the theory claims that producers and workers will move into profitable and high wage industries. But of course it doesn't work that way. He's talking about reality and you aren't. And btw, he's studied economics plenty, I'm sure.

	12-01-2005 01:45									#124
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Wow - another cap/com threadjack! Keep up the good work!

But in order to really keep this thread flying, someone should bring up abortion and/or religion.

	12-01-2005 02:02									#125
	Remove this text

I considered taking a shot at religion, but in a very broad sense (kinda what General Ludd is talking about in teaching intelligent design thread). This is something that appears to be a general failing of humanity - we often just accept what we're told by people we assume know better, whether that be priests, scientists, economists, psychics and other assorted quacks... and thereby avoid thinking about issues for ourselves. To an extent, it's necessary (otherwise you would get nothing done), but it's rather more widespread than is healthy, I think.

But that's not the worst problem.

-Arrian

	12-01-2005 02:15									#126
	Support Apolyton

I think it is actually. The worst problem is the inability to solve our problems.

	12-01-2005 02:25									#127
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Brilliant, Kid. Simply brilliant.

-Arrian

	12-01-2005 02:34									#128
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

You can't argue with that logic.

	12-01-2005 02:35									#129
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Biggest Problem?

Everyone needs to get laid more.

	12-01-2005 02:42									#130
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy None more so than the likes of an election. 9/11 would only probably be remembered for it's uniqueness and the fact that it stood as a kick-up-the-backside. As for the numbers of people that died, in the historical sense, it is trivial, and the post-9/11 hysteria would not be well understood by history, except in the Orwellian sense.

It's perfectly understandable. People react to the fact that other people are actively gunning for them differently than to the fact that some people died as a result of an impersonal force of nature.

	12-01-2005 02:43									#131
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie So does war and genocide. Each of them have been at least 100 times worse than terrorism in the last 10 years.

And I wasn't comparing it to war or genocide, but to natural disasters and disease.

	12-01-2005 02:45									#132
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Biggest Problem? Everyone needs to get laid more.

	12-01-2005 02:46									#133
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Biggest Problem? Everyone needs to get laid more.

If a Patroklos, Sava, and Azazel agree on something, it must be true.

	12-01-2005 02:47									#134
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: If a Patroklos, Sava, and Azazel agree on something, it must be true.

	12-01-2005 05:08									#135
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You're assuming that a free market would be perfect.

By definition, a totally free market is a perfectly free market.

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious There's a reason it isn't tried, because know one really believes that it would work.

Nope, it hasn't been tried because it's impossible. You cannot have perfect knowledge of a market.

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious His comment is true. Free markets, as they are in practice, result in inequality. In theory they should result in equality since the theory claims that producers and workers will move into profitable and high wage industries. But of course it doesn't work that way. He's talking about reality and you aren't. And btw, he's studied economics plenty, I'm sure.

No, free markets haven't been tried. Free markets in a nation do result in inequality. Between nations, they equalize, when compared to other models. And as a philosophy tutor, I wouldn't be sure he's studied economics.

	12-01-2005 05:14									#136
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: If a Patroklos, Sava, and Azazel agree on something, it must be true.

	12-01-2005 05:20									#137
	Suffering from ads?

The death of Eventis.

	12-01-2005 13:35									#138
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I see a conflict in these statements:

quote: Originally posted by Sava too many humans

quote: Biggest Problem? Everyone needs to get laid more.

	12-01-2005 13:44									#139
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The world's number 1 problem is there are too many people. Sava is right

It's not that there are too many people, it's that there isn't enough World.

	12-01-2005 15:35									#140
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Verto The death of Eventis.

I can't access it.
Please, mdo not tell me it is dead.
Noooo!!!

	12-01-2005 15:40									#141
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Drogue However your comment that the free market results in greater inequality is not an "in practice" comment, as it's never been tried. The free market, a perfect free market, allocates income based on how good you are at your job - how much you're worth to your employer. So it's distributed by abilit, perfectly, with nothing to do with need. Thus while it would be unequal, it would be fair and unequal.

In what twisted and perverse sense of "fair".

	12-01-2005 15:44									#142
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A different twisted and perverse sense of fair than yours.

	12-01-2005 18:13									#143
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Agathon In what twisted and perverse sense of "fair".

Each according to his ability. The hint was in thie "distributed by ability, perfectly, with nothing to do with need." If you make something, you own what you make. If you sell that, you own the money it sold for. The same way in a fair legal system that if you commit a crime, you do the punishment for it. It's not necessarily good, but it is necessarily good, being "in an evenhanded manner" (OED). Anything with one rule for all is fair.

	12-01-2005 18:23									#144
	Inflate your Upload Space

The biggest problem effecting the world right now is that Im not the supreme ruler yet.

Poverty is relative, therefore I would make everyone equaly bad off. Eliminating your so called poverty.

Disease is divine. I would eliminate "hospitals" and "medicine". If people werent so evil they wouldnt get sick, simple really.

Again education and equality are relative, I would give everyone equaly poor education and everyone would be below me in the social order. For example, there would be me on the very top, then directly under me everyone else. They would be called the slave class, because they would all be my slaves.

Terrorism and gang warfare would be non-existant as well. All of the evil people would die from disease and everyone else would starve to death, thereby eliminating any rivalry that may exist.


See? Now make me your ruler.

	12-01-2005 19:38									#145
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Stay on your iceberg and become ruler of it