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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:31
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WB quote:
As opposed to conservatives? |
Both liberals and conservatives use the schools to push their ideologies. I've already said that a couple times...
quote:
I would prefer racist parents to have no influence on the education system. Ditto holocaust deniers and creationists (as much as it is attempted it cannot be equated to evolution in this respect). Certain ideas are simply better in the context of being taught to children in society. |
It doesn't matter what you prefer.
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Well I see this as a problem that simply isn't the case in the EU, the UK specifically |
Both have higher taxes, and both have higher out of wedlock births with a welfare state than without.
ceebs - quote:
If this is truely happening (Some form of evidence perhaps?) then it could be caused by many things, by a greater rate of inclusion of disadvantaged students bringing the averages down. |
If you went to school 25-45 years ago, you don't need "evidence", you already know what is obvious. The
evidence I've already supplied which you apparently missed was the difference between SF public schools and rural Maryland 25-30 years ago.
Theben quote:
This is pure BS. The same can be said of 'conservative- controlled' areas (whatever that means, there are plenty of each found in population and power in most areas of the country). Welfare doesn't "promote" out of wedlock births, and as someone pointed out the 'liberal' states have lower OOW pregnancy and abortion rates. |
And you think what I said is pure BS because welfare promotes out of wedlock births in more conservative areas? I suggest you guys actually do some research and compare out of wedlock births before and after welfare before making "pure BS" proclamations.
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Sex education plays a big role there (another evil liberal idea). |
And now schools are providing grade schoolers with sex education. Great idea there... So, have out of wedlock births gone down because of sex education?
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And women were forced into the workforce by the combination of declining wage earnings and increasing costs of living. I know plenty of people who try to do the 1 breadwinner option, so someone can stay home with the kids. It's not a matter of ideology, it's one of money.[quote]
Taxes aren't money? Sheesh! It becomes a matter of ideology when liberals want to tax the hell out of people.
[quote]And I don't see an influx of women rushing back home after the Bush, or Reagan, tax 'cuts', so maybe increased taxes didn't account for too much, eh? |
Bush and Reagan were fiscally very liberal, neither vetoed a budget, neither vetoed big spending bills. Reagan even resided over the biggest increase in the payroll tax. You don't compare Reagan or Bush to Clinton, you compare the last 35 years of increased taxes with the first half of the century when most people didn't even pay an income tax.
Oerdin quote:
I have to agree with Theben. The liberal parts of the country have lower out of wedlock birth rates, lower divorce rates, lower welfare rates, and lower rates of sexually transmited diseases. Also the liberal states tend to have superior education systems compared to conservative states. |
You don't compare the effects of a welfare state on liberal and conservative parts of the country, you compare out of wedlock birthrates before and after the creation of a welfare state.
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Women have joined the work force mainly because the cost of living has gone up but wages have stagnated for most job fields. It has nothing to do with conservative or liberal. |
Taxes aren't a cost of living? The cost of doing business is not a cost of living? I've read that out of wedlock birthrate among blacks was ~single digit in the first half of the century, now its ~%70. The rate among whites was single digit but has started to climb too, around
%35 now. What changed? A welfare state is one change...
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General Ludd
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Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:31
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Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The user of the knife, or the creator of the knife, does. |
So the creator can have a use, I guess. What about the knife? Is it's purpose not to cut - it has a fine blade that can slice through material and little other use. It's what it does, so that's it's purpose.
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(Ignoring the fact that humans plant apple trees) |
Apples where around before humans where. 
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an apple has no purpose. The functionality that resulted in the genes that cause apple trees to produce apples being selected by natural selection is planting the tree's seed. |
And what's functionality if not purpose?
Do your eyes and legs have no purpose aswell?
It's quite clear what the purpose of legs are - to stand, walk, run, jump, ect... it's all they can do, it's what they're for, and it's why we have them. It's their purpose. Just as an apple's purpose is to spread the seed of the tree.
Actually, in that sense, an apple - or a leg, or an eye, does have 'intent', or an intention, because it exists for a sole purpose.
Last edited by General Ludd on 13-01-2005 at 05:58
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Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd
So the creator can have a use, I guess. What about the knife? Is it's purpose not to cut - it has a fine blade that can slice through material and little other use. It's what it does, so that's it's purpose. |
As I said, a reasonable definition of the objective purpose of an object is the set of all of the subjective purposes. The knife derives that purpose not from the configuration of its parts but from the intentions others hold towards it.
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Apples where around before humans where. |
You're missing the point - besides which, the parenthetical was referring to an exception to MY claim, not yours.
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And what's functionality if not purpose? |
A rock can do tons of things. Accelerated to a high enough speed, it can blow up a planet. Compressed to a small enough size, it can become a black hole. There are an unlimited number of things many objects can do. Purpose is functionality that is intended by someone.
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Do your eyes and legs have no purpose aswell?
It's quite clear what the purpose of legs are - to stand, walk, run, jump, ect... it's all they can do, it's what they're for, and it's why we have them. It's their purpose. Just as an apple's purpose is to spread the seed of the tree. |
My purpose in using the legs is to walk around. The purpose in legs existing - there is none. That's the point - evolution has no intent, no purpose. There is no purpose to traits that have evolved - there is merely functionality that happens to be conducive towards the reproduction of those traits.
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13-01-2005 01:49
. Consider a table... it's only a table in a given context.
A knife doesn't have to be intelligent to be for cutting.
At least they admit that being an "accepted scientific theory" is more important than the facts.
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