13-01-2005 19:37									#1
	Should Civilization IV be Starforce protected? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hi guys,



As recently some games have been released with the notorious "Starforce" protection system, should the coming game Civilization IV should also have the "Starforce" protection system. You are requested to to kindly post your opinions about that and take part in the poll. Thanks

	13-01-2005 20:21									#2
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NEver experienced the system myself, but judging from what I've heard, no way.

	13-01-2005 20:44									#3
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Well, let's see, what are the advantages and disadvantages of such a system?

Advantages: None.

Disadvantages: it's a hassle to use, it installs crap without informing the user, it causes problems in running perfectly legally acquired 3rd party software, it infringes on a buyer's basic right to make a legitimate copy for backup purposes, it punishes the good guys for doing something the bad guys did ('cuz you know that illegal copies of CIV will be available within a week of release, no matter what copy protection systems may be used).

Pretty much a no-brainer...

There are two ways to prevent the evil that is software piracy (and with it also the evil of copy protection):

1) Make clear to the players that piracy is hurting legitimate sales and therefore directly affecting the budgets for developing new games. For a niche market like TBS, that means that if Civ4 doesn't sell enough copies, it may very well turn out to be the last mainstream TBS PC game ever. This is not only the responsibility of the developer and publisher, but of us as fans as well. Peer pressure is a powerful tool, and we benefit from it just as much (probably even more so) than the guys and girls making the games.

2) Make it attractive to buy. I.e. make it cheap (€40 for a new game is absolutely ridiculous) and/or make it worth the money: nice tech tree, bulky and useful manual, maybe a poster or some other goodies, etc. And provide legitimate buyers an online account that offers all kinds of extras for like downloadable scenarios, new civs, (mini) expansion packs, sneak previews/betas of other sequels/XPs/other games, etc. In other words: the GalCiv method...

	13-01-2005 23:05									#4
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well said Locutus, well said

	13-01-2005 23:50									#5
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Even though I really wanted, and still want, Superpower 2, I have not bought it because it has Starforce. If Civ4 goes that route, it will be the same situation, just a different game, for me at least.

	13-01-2005 23:54									#6
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Locutus got it .

Also, the Starforce system is a classic situation of making the legal product worse than the pirated one. I don't want to feel that I am at a disadvantage when spending my money for the game compared to those who pirate it, because they get a better working game in the end. No way.

	14-01-2005 00:00									#7
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What's starforce?

	14-01-2005 18:59									#8
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Obviously a new kind of copy protection. One of that kind that prevents incompetent pirates from stealing software and legitimate customers from using it.

Luckily, there's a solution to that problem: Open Source Software!

	14-01-2005 20:05									#9
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Star force protects the program by making it so that no one would want to use it.

	14-01-2005 21:03									#10
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http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=109676

Same thread at CFC...

	14-01-2005 21:11									#11
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Well said, Locutus.

There's another drawback. Someone would have to pay for the system. Guess who that would be.

	14-01-2005 21:27									#12
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I was thinking this was a future tech -- kinda like an SDI system -- so I voted no.

Then I read the thread, and now that I understand what "Starforce Protection" is, I want to chage my vote to:





HELL NO!!!!!!!! -- but I don't see that option.

	14-01-2005 23:24									#14
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I've never seen such unanimous vote results on apolyton before.

	15-01-2005 02:33									#15
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At the moment, it's 1 for to 26 against at CFC too.

If this is a feeler from Firaxis or whoever's going to publish Civ4, then the results are pretty definitive.

	15-01-2005 02:58									#16
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Yes, I want invisible software installed on my computer without my knowledge, except for a next-to-invisble blurb printed in an obscure location on the packaging

[/sarcasm mode off]

	15-01-2005 08:59									#17
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Hell no!

Ask Brad Wardell on how to properly deal with "piracy" - he has the right idea.

	15-01-2005 09:06									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Ask Brad Wardell on how to properly deal with "piracy" - he has the right idea.

Can you enlighten the rest of us?

	16-01-2005 16:15									#19
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CD Copy protection is not the way to stop piracy

	16-01-2005 17:02									#20
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Thanks UR. That's the first I've ever seen of that particular article, but I have to say that he is dead on. The one thing he didn't mention that would help stop piracy, IMO, is to have a demo available early. I don't think there has ever been a demo version of civ. If they released a demo a month or so before actual release of the game, or even the day the game is released, people would be able to try before they buy, without having to resort to pirating the game just to see if they like it. And as Brad Wardell said, it's all about convenience, once you've pirated the game just to see if you like it, why go out and buy it?

Granted, there are some who would buy the game with or without the demo, but the demo is for those who have never played the game before, where as these people are most likely veterans.

	16-01-2005 18:59									#21
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quote: Originally posted by alms66 I don't think there has ever been a demo version of civ.

There are playable demos of Civ3, that you can download. The thing is, they bacame available after the game was released. Probably in fear of piracy again, as they have only a time limit, and no other restrictions.

	17-01-2005 00:46									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 There are playable demos of Civ3, that you can download. The thing is, they bacame available after the game was released. Probably in fear of piracy again, as they have only a time limit, and no other restrictions.

I think the only demo-like software available for civ is those few try-before-you-buy web services out there, where you download the game. If you go to civ3.com, there is no demo.

	17-01-2005 01:45									#23
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It was a demo for ToT and I think I've seen a demo of Civ2:MGE somewhere.

	17-01-2005 02:19									#24
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quote: Originally posted by alva What's starforce?

A nasty piece of malware posing as a copy protection scheme.

	17-01-2005 22:06									#25
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I've never seen such unanimous vote results on apolyton before.

There's one vote for yes now. Very likely just to be a smartass.

	17-01-2005 22:09									#26
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quote: Originally posted by alms66 I think the only demo-like software available for civ is those few try-before-you-buy web services out there, where you download the game. If you go to civ3.com, there is no demo.

This is exactly, what I was referring to. They basically give you a demo, don't they?

	18-01-2005 08:39									#27
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Locutus nailed it.

And Ranger, thanks for the lead on a very insightful article.

	18-01-2005 13:47									#28
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The big difference with GalCiv though was that Stardock were always going to be spending the next 12 months patching, tweaking and upgrading the basic game - they planned it budgetted for it and used it as a selling point. Ergo their 'copy protection' scheme tailored serial #'s to specific users who'd be wanting to download the newest upgrade on a semi-regular basis.
Such a scheme mightn't be as workable for the standard run-of-the-mill piece of software off the production line.
Paradox might be an exception.


Starforce though ...

That's more of an incentive to ignore and avoid anything using it entirely - unless of course it is a pirated version with the Starforce crap taken out of it.





[Edit: Nuts. Should've read the article before posting ...]

	18-01-2005 17:57									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger CD Copy protection is not the way to stop piracy

Finally one who makes software that understands that such protection does no good to anyone