14-01-2005 00:40									#1
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We should ask for extension if needed, the decisions we may be forced to make are of grave importance, we shouldn't rush there.

quote: We have been forced to pause our turnplay due to urgent issue. Hive base, Labor Network, will finish production of an impact foil this year. However since this is their only unit currently in build and Labor Network is westwards, we suspect that Hive is producing it to kill our foil and moving sea units. This would have far reaching consequnces as we would suffer a setback and we would lose opportunity to probe Yang safely for at least 15-20 years if Hive manages to do this. Our defences against Hive would be weakened severly as well. You know that this would have grave consequnces for not only us, but you as well (as all our plans for sharing techs gained by probing Yang with you would fail). We don't have full data on Hive's connection with your continent and we need to know if it is possible to move the foil through the landbridge and if possible, how long it will take. Our only window to act to prevent this is now and this is why we ask you for chartographic data. We would ask you for a screenshot of area approximately within 32, 58 - 36,54 -36,62 and 40, 58 squares. I am sending this to Herc and Mart - you please PM Ouro, BT and CT with that information to post on our forums as I won't be available for a day. The information is important and needed soon.

Sent to Angels.

	14-01-2005 00:48									#2
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Problem: Labor Network will finish impact foil this turn. It is west. The Hive is probably builiding to sink our transport foil. We need to know if Hive can move it east through Angel landbridge. If it can, we would better do changing from former to a laser foil as Hive impact foil would sink it too. Other options are to invite Spartans to destroy it but 1) this may note ven be possible 2) Spartans would have ridiculous demands and could not eb forced out of that are afterwards. Attempting to chase foil away with transport foil would fail probably too as it is too slow. If we lose possibilty of sea transport there we can't probe Hive, our defense strategy fails and we suffer a major setback. This is probably one of must important issues we need to decide upon, and if needed, we should ask for extensions until we solve it - consequnces of this problem could be longterm and far-reaching not only for us, but for Angels and maybe even Spartans as well.

	14-01-2005 07:54									#3
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This was sent to me by mart...

Enjoy!

Attachment: map_dag01.jpg
This has been downloaded 35 time(s).

	14-01-2005 16:46									#4
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EDIT: never mind

	14-01-2005 20:09									#5
	Remove this text

Damn. Any suggestions on what to do?

	14-01-2005 20:11									#6
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I'll ask Angels if it is possible for them to subvert the impact foil, once it is produced.

	14-01-2005 20:39									#7
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quote: I thank you for data you have sent to us. However, we currently don't have much options on what to do with the impact foil Hive is going to produce - if we tried to manafacture a foil to destroy it, I am not sure if it would be ready and could reach the Hive foil before it destroys our units+we have laser weapons only, which would have to go against their synthmetal armoured unit and better moraled unit. Even if we manage to produce a foil to reach it, outcome of the battle is likely not very good. Are Angels in immediate danger if they risk going to war? Your probe foil could subvert the 4-1-1 foil, but you would be forced then join us and Spartans in war against Hive and I believe that you would find it dangerous to get involved in war against Hive, even if it is stretched thin on three sides. As we have little time to decide, and many of our members are not online, we must explore all alternatives, no matter how desperate they are. BTW, I see you plan to probe Yang. You could have asked us for base coordinates of his coastal bases - we can give them to you if you want.

Sent to Mart.

	14-01-2005 21:04									#8
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Options 1) redirect former to a laser foil Advantages - we will have the unit with which to engage Hive foil. Disadvantages: it will be 2-1-1 against 4-1-1 and we have a morale penalty. Delays production of the seaformer, and delays destruction of landbridge with Hive for turns - and it is a lenghtly procedure anyway (it needs turns to traverse north and lowering needs 6 turns) while Hive already has two stacks of impact units for us, with gatling weapons being mass produced.
Option 2) ask Angels to subvert the foil - advantages: obvious, we don't have to do anything for defense.
Disadvantages: Angels probably wouldn't want to do so, if they do, we will probably have to compensate for EC cost and there is a small chance it will fail.
Option 3) hope that Hive foils is destroyed by a IoD or that it goes elsewhere.

	14-01-2005 21:30									#9
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24-hour extension granted...I don't have time to check every single thread though, and i don't think drugs does either, so please PM any problems.

	14-01-2005 22:37									#10
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Likewise. I check the forums most days though

	15-01-2005 02:55									#11
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Personally, I'm a gamble'n man Illuminatus. I say option 3......let'her ride! Put your fate in the hands of the Cosmic Muffin brother Illuminatus!

I'll look at the turn in more detail when I get home and see if I have a different attitude on this.

	15-01-2005 06:57									#12
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Two or three... I too will take another look at the turn.

	15-01-2005 09:43									#13
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while i do check the forums daily, and a topic called 'URGENT ISSUE' would probably catch my attention, stuff in turn-planning threads might evade me

	15-01-2005 23:20									#14
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Sigh. So what have you decided? Livid Imp goes for option three, Ouro hasn't specified his vote. Results are 0 votes for first option, 0.5 votes for second and 1.5 votes for third option. Since nobody was online and we are three hours after time extension, I'll open the endturn save and hit end turn. May Planet have mercy on us.

	16-01-2005 01:31									#15
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Upon double checking the turn, it just further assures me of my decision.

The best foil defense we can muster is a 2-2-4, and 6 turns after the fact. We can't afford to pay for the subversion of the Hive foil, because we need that money to sink the land bridge. I think we are under funded as far as that goes anyway.

If you think the Hive foil will be headed for our transport, then get it the hell away from where we will be sinking the land bridge. We don't want to lure it to our former.

	16-01-2005 04:59									#16
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I doubt it will work, however, I do believe it was our best defense... frankly, I'm pretty sure there was no effective defense as of this point. Make them pay!

	17-01-2005 15:29									#17
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Well - about all expressed here:

1. Sea attacks are calculated like:

a: Long Range Bombardment: Attack value vs Attack Value
b: Close Combat: Attack value vs Defense value

So if we attack 4-1-1 foil in CC with 2-1-1 foil, we are the winners, but if 4-1-1 foil intercepts our 2-1-1 in either way, our foil hits dust..

Also - AI seafarring ways seem quite random mostly.
Although they tend to head for subamrines as soon as you build em, other types of sea vessels dont bother them so much..

However - if AI is going to sink our foil we want it to run in different direction to lure away from former.
There is not much where to run..

If we run, Hive forces advance..
We can hold em for few turns, but then we run..
Our secondary defense is almost ready - 1 more sensor and 2 more forests to plant..


So, lets live and see what future holds for us.
If Hive runs into our territory we can push it back as soon as our first boreholes come into function..

For that instance we should really build a command center in our northmost base for our units to heal in 1 turn!

	18-01-2005 01:11									#18
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If we can't sink the land bridge, our next best long-term defense is a city near or at the choke point, with a plethora of attackers, a few defenders just in case, and a command center/perimeter defense/you name it. By the time Yang brings air power against us, hopefully an aerospace complex + AAA defenders will be enough to stand (and hopefully we'll have both by then).

	18-01-2005 14:16									#19
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quote: If we can't sink the land bridge, our next best long-term defense is a city near or at the choke point, with a plethora of attackers, a few defenders just in case, and a command center/perimeter defense/you name it. By the time Yang brings air power against us, hopefully an aerospace complex + AAA defenders will be enough to stand (and hopefully we'll have both by then).

A replacement for Defense Plan B!

But we must hold enough to:

1.make a city there (+sensor near it)
2.build per. def. and command center (both would be very good)

And we should start building those attackers and defenders right now, so we can have fully defended city as soon as it's planted.

If we CAN sink the bridge, those units won't hurt us (make them coast patrols)

If we CANT sink the bridge they might be our last hope..

	18-01-2005 15:32									#20
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We can plant a city ("Willow") at the river site around the end of the road in defense plan B, whether or not we can sink the bridge. If we can, it makes the cost feasible. If we can't, it's a defensible position. If we need another city further forward, we can push forward from Willow, perhaps even founding multiple cities near the bridge.

	18-01-2005 16:02									#21
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good!

quote: perhaps even founding multiple cities near the bridge.

If we made a city on each side of bridge then even loss of one of them wouldn't allow the troops to move in due to ZOC..

	21-01-2005 23:28									#22
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I wish you guys were incompetent so that we could have an argument about how to handle things