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Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 04:48
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#31 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

A well-paid one though.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 05:47
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As it happens, the best-articulated outrage over this came from -- of all people -- conservative columnist George Will, who puts the Williams payment in an even-more-outrageous context. I've bolded my favorite parts:

quote:
No Ad Left Behind

By George F. Will

Thursday, January 13, 2005; Page A21


In communist East Berlin, one sign of the government's swollen self-regard was the cluttering of public spaces with propaganda banners by which the government praised itself for providing socialism. In Washington today, the Education Department building is an advertisement for its occupants.

Eight entrances are framed by make-believe little red schoolhouses labeled "No Child Left Behind." High on the building's front are two other advertisements for that 2002 law: Large banners hector passersby to visit www.nochildleftbehind.gov.

This building-as-billboard is the workplace of those eager beavers who had this brainstorm: Let's pay a million taxpayer dollars to a public relations firm to manufacture enthusiasm for the No Child Left Behind Act, including a $241,000 payment to columnist and television talk-show host Armstrong Williams for his praise of the legislation. The eager beavers are long on energy but short on judgment.

Just 10 years ago Washington trembled because many Republicans who had won in the cymbal-crash elections of 1994 had vowed to abolish the Education Department. Education, they said, is a quintessentially state and local responsibility. But soon Republicans in Congress and a Republican president were deepening Washington's reach into education. In 1996 Republican appropriators gave the department a 15.7 percent increase in discretionary spending. And No Child Left Behind increased federal education spending more than any increase requested by President Bill Clinton, who was the teachers unions' poodle. Some of that money went to Williams.

When conservatives break with their principles, they seem to become casual about breaking the law, too. Last year the then-General Accounting Office accused the Department of Health and Human Services of illegal spending when it distributed fake "news" videos that were used by 40 local stations around the country. In them the many benefits of the new Medicare prescription drug entitlement were "reported" by a fake reporter whose actual status -- an employee of an HHS subcontractor -- was not revealed. The English version of these "video news releases" concluded, "In Washington, I'm Karen Ryan reporting."

This scofflaw enterprise was an appropriate coda to the lawless making of this law. Republican leaders traduced House procedures by holding open the vote for three hours, giving them time to pressure sensibly reluctant legislators. And the Justice Department says the Bush administration broke no law when the Medicare program's chief actuary was told he would be fired if he gave Congress his estimate that the program's 10-year cost would be about a third more than the $400 billion the administration claimed.

The GAO has frequently had occasion to insist that taxpayers' money cannot be used when the "obvious purpose is 'self-aggrandizement' or 'puffery.' " Last week it had another occasion, chastising the Office of National Drug Control Policy for also disseminating fake news videos.

It is difficult to calculate how many billions of dollars the government spends on indefensible, if not illegal, self-promotion. Democrats, too, have violated the spirit, and perhaps the letter, of various laws that contain language such as "no part of any appropriation contained in this Act shall be used for publicity or propaganda purposes not authorized by the Congress" and appropriated funds may not be used "in a general propaganda effort designed to aid a political party or candidates." But conservatives should be less aggressive than Democrats in using taxpayers' money to try to mold taxpayers' minds.

It is impossible to draw, with statutory language, a bright line between legitimate informing and illegitimate propagandizing by government. What is indispensable is common sense, and that is atrophying as this lawyer-ridden nation sinks deeper into the delusion that sensible behavior can be comprehensively codified.

Obviously government leaders must try to lead by persuading the public. But government by the consent of the governed should not mean government by consent produced by government propaganda. Unfortunately, as government's pretensions grow, so does its sense that its glorious ends justify even the tackiest means.

Eight decades ago, in a Washington not progressive enough to think that it could or should superintend primary and secondary education, the president set a tone that today's government -- a Leviathan with attention-deficit disorder -- could usefully emulate. "Mr. Coolidge's genius for inactivity," wrote columnist Walter Lippmann, "is developed to a very high point. It is far from being indolent inactivity. It is a grim, determined, alert inactivity." After the debacles of hired and faked journalists, we need a contagion of Coolidgeism, beginning in the Education Department, if it is educable.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2005Jan12.html (requires registration)

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 06:45 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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#33 Report this post to a moderator
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beautiful avatar, boshko, and a fantastic movie.

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 07:07
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#34 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
beautiful avatar, boshko, and a fantastic movie.

That it is
My fiance spent the whole movie laughing about how much she used to be like the main character

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 07:08 Visit Dis's homepage!
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#35 Report this post to a moderator
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what movie is that?

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 07:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
what movie is that?

Yeopgijeogin geunyeo, translated (badly) as "My Sassy Girl"

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
Deity
I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 10:40 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
On a sidenote, under Reagan we saw the beginning of the militarization of law enforcement (drug war) which resulted in Waco, Ruby Ridge and the bombing in Okla City, etc., now we're apparently seeing the CIAzation of other bureaucracies - s black budget for the Dept of Education? Or did Congress specifically pass an expenditure to bribe commentators? Of course, Congress gives other groups/people money, like AARP.

I was completely unaware that Law Enforcement blew up the Alfred P Murray building, and here they convicted Timothy McVeigh for it.

Did Ronnie call in the strike from his home?

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 10:45 Visit Dis's homepage!
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nice avatar

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 10:47
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Got a chuckle out of me.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
Deity
I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 10:54 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
nice avatar

The poster formerly known as Uber Krux made it.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 11:17
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#41 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

Sorry Gepap. Kerry lost, I just don't care anymore.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 13:01
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Farb
quote:
I was completely unaware that Law Enforcement blew up the Alfred P Murray building, and here they convicted Timothy McVeigh for it.


Tim McVeigh blew the building up because of Waco and Ruby Ridge. Are you familiar with cause and effect or connecting the dots? Your sarcasm might have been effective if this wasn't so painfully obvious.

quote:
Did Ronnie call in the strike from his home?


Didn't have to, he militarised law enforcement in this country in the name of his drug war. One effect of that was Ruby Ridge and Waco followed by Okla City.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 13:14
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#43 Report this post to a moderator
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Wow. having a beef with law enforcement leads to blowing up toddlers in day care along with the rest of a building with civies in it.

You'd make a good 'ol AQ or Hamas boy, Berz.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 13:21
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That was McVeigh's rationale for doing it, you boys get confused really easy.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 13:23
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What was the Son of Sam's rationale? Maybe that should be taken into account too.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 13:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
Didn't have to, he militarised law enforcement in this country in the name of his drug war. One effect of that was Ruby Ridge and Waco followed by Okla City.


You might as well blame JE Hoover, and Wyatt Earp for that matter.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 13:38 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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#47 Report this post to a moderator
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Berzerker is too smart for your silly games son.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 13:46
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#48 Report this post to a moderator
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NYE
quote:
What was the Son of Sam's rationale? Maybe that should be taken into account too.


So you're saying Waco and Ruby Ridge had absolutely nothing to do with McVeigh's motive for blowing up that building?

quote:
You might as well blame JE Hoover, and Wyatt Earp for that matter.


They didn't militarise law enforcement. Please try to keep up...

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 13:51
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You're saying that SA had had absolutely nothing to do with the WTC? IOW, why the hell do you care what justification loons use to blow stuff and people up?

Forgive me, but it sounds as if you are making excuses somewhat like an apologist would.

There may be some cause that underlies the motive, but the execution is all wrong. Right?

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 14:20
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NYE
quote:
You're saying that SA had had absolutely nothing to do with the WTC? IOW, why the hell do you care what justification loons use to blow stuff and people up?


Because Tim McVeigh blew that building up because of injustices he saw...injustices millions saw or learned about. He wasn't a loon, he was mad as hell at the government. Gee, is there a lesson or "moral" to the story? Why yes, and the Feds learned it very quickly because they had another stand-off with the Montana Freemen (more "loons" pissed off at the government, but they really were loony) and they bent over backwards to end it peacefully.

quote:
Forgive me, but it sounds as if you are making excuses somewhat like an apologist would.


Let me guess, you think OBL attacked us because "we're free"? How does one learn why someone is trying to kill them if they wont listen? Now, read this very closely - where did I justify McVeigh's response to Waco and Ruby Ridge?

quote:
There may be some cause that underlies the motive, but the execution is all wrong. Right?


Well thanks for asking after effectively calling me a traitor.
Millions of people were outraged at the Feds for what happened at Waco and Ruby Ridge, is it any surprise someone was really outraged? That tells me there's a problem, and that problem is law enforcement became extremely heavy handed under Reagan and the zeal to wage a drug war. You see, I want to know why someone is trying to kill me because that just ain't a normal emotion (except maybe here at Poly ). And if its because my government has spent the last few decades pissing Muslims off, then maybe my government should stop pissing them off.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 14:28
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Since GePap started the thread and can't give a response I'll give you his stadard post








notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 14:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
NYE

Because Tim McVeigh blew that building up because of injustices he saw...injustices millions saw or learned about. He wasn't a loon, he was mad as hell at the government...


so he blew up a bunch of kids along with the federal building that symbolized what he hated. Hated so much he ignored everyone else that was murdered.

Sorry, Berz, but it is people like you who speak for the IRA, Hamas, and AQ. Sorry to point it out, but there it is.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 14:43
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Why don't they face down FBI officers in the streets, or attack army barracks? 'Cause they would get their cowardly butts kicked?

You want to fight? Fight people who are armed and can defend themselves. You want to be cowards? Bomb buildings with civies and kids in them.

Did the Minute Men seek out British civies and shot them, or did they seek out the British Army and engage them?

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 14:51
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NYE
quote:
so he blew up a bunch of kids along with the federal building that symbolized what he hated. Hated so much he ignored everyone else that was murdered.


Any innocent people die at Waco and Ruby Ridge?

quote:
Sorry, Berz, but it is people like you who speak for the IRA, Hamas, and AQ. Sorry to point it out, but there it is.


You sound like Sean Hannity. I guess that means you won't be quoting me justifying McVeigh's response. Instead, you repeat the accusation. Its people like you who got us attacked on 9/11. Sorry, but there it is...

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 14:58
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quote:
Why don't they face down FBI officers in the streets, or attack army barracks? 'Cause they would get their cowardly butts kicked?

You want to fight? Fight people who are armed and can defend themselves. You want to be cowards? Bomb buildings with civies and kids in them.

Did the Minute Men seek out British civies and shot them, or did they seek out the British Army and engage them?


To your last question, yes to both. Brit sympathisers were often executed. But get off your ******* high horse long enough to quote me.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 14:58
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You sound like... a spokesman for Sinn Fein or like you should be speaking on AlJ, so?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 15:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker


get off your ******* high horse long enough to quote me.


pfft.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 15:03
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Were those the people trying to kick the British out of Ireland? I'd be glad to, the British starved and murdered millions of Irish. Are you justifying that?

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 15:05
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NYE, your intellectual cowardice is showing.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 15:10
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Remove this text

pfft.

 
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