Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > More proof of the U.S. downfall. Viva la france!
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (5): [ 1   2   3   4     >> ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:09 Visit Dis's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
More proof of the U.S. downfall. Viva la france! Increase Your PM Length

check this big mama out

http://www.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS/01...reut/index.html











Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:11
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Wow. Wonder how much it costs to fly on a plane like that...

Starchild is offline Starchild
Emperor
a raving alcoholic drama queen with a penchant for the biosciences
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:14
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ah yes, the Airbus megajumbo or something like that. Beautiful thing. Like a flying hotel they say.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:14 Visit BeBro's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Re: More proof of the U.S. downfall. Viva la france! Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
check this big mama out



Haha - preemptive strike before we Eurocoms could start a thread about it?

And it is European, not only French!

A 380

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:15 Visit Dis's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

bah! you other europeans only wish you had the technical genius of the french.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:15 Visit BeBro's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Wow. Wonder how much it costs to fly on a plane like that...


Same as on others - depends (first class or economy etc.)

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:16 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

A veritable Starship Enterprise D.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:17
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

I doubt it will be built if the EU is forced to cut state aid to Airbus.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:18 Visit BeBro's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The plane is already ordered around the globe

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

I read somewhere that this plane is the largest that current technology will support. To get bigger they would have to invent a different type of wing material or something...can't remember the details.

Also, Boeing looked at doing a super jumbo, but decided not to persue it due to a predicted lack of market and a desire to concentrate on more volume producing units.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:22
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by BeBro
The plane is already ordered around the globe


Do you know how many and what the cost per unit is?

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:24 Visit BeBro's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

I wonder if we still live when the next generation of supersonic airliners appears .....

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:30
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Wow. Wonder how much it costs to fly on a plane like that...


I don't know but I do know it has sucked up millions and millions of government subsidies.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:30 Visit BeBro's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by PLATO


Do you know how many and what the cost per unit is?


Last number I read is 139 planes that are ordered plus talks about some 20 more. Profit should be made with ca. 250 sold planes. Airbus hopes to sell over 700, of course I have no idea if they reach that. Price is ca. 280 Millionen Dollar per plane.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:32
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Re: Re: More proof of the U.S. downfall. Viva la france! Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by BeBro
And it is European, not only French!


Bah, you krauts can't even get the Frenchies to give you equal representation on the board of directors or in the executive suite.

Combat Ingrid is offline Combat Ingrid
Chieftain
Satan's Majestic Empire
Nov 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:33
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The inside of that plane sure looks big and comfy, but I bet they will squeeze in a few hundred extra chairs in there to keep the ticket prices down

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:34
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by PLATO
Also, Boeing looked at doing a super jumbo, but decided not to persue it due to a predicted lack of market and a desire to concentrate on more volume producing units.


The market likely wouldn't support two mega-jumbo makers plus Airbus is being massively subsidized by various governments to build this plane. How does a company which doesn't recieve any cash subsidies compete against a company that recieved truckloads of free government cash?

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by BeBro


Last number I read is 139 planes that are ordered plus talks about some 20 more. Profit should be made with ca. 250 sold planes. Airbus hopes to sell over 700, of course I have no idea if they reach that. Price is ca. 280 Millionen Dollar per plane.


139 On order is pretty strong. That should put the plane well on its way to profitability.

Boeings latest, The 7E7 Dreamliner, should go into service in 2008. Initial orders on it look very strong as well with 112 on order as of 12/22/04.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:37 Visit BeBro's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Re: Re: Re: More proof of the U.S. downfall. Viva la france! Put an end to popups!

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


Bah, you krauts can't even get the Frenchies to give you equal representation on the board of directors or in the executive suite.


Nah, we just like to stay in the background, arranging and controlling everything

Jaakko is offline Jaakko
King
in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:44
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


The market likely wouldn't support two mega-jumbo makers plus Airbus is being massively subsidized by various governments to build this plane. How does a company which doesn't recieve any cash subsidies compete against a company that recieved truckloads of free government cash?


You saying Boeing doesn't get govt subsidies?

laurentius is offline laurentius
King
Helsinki, Finland
Jun 2001
time: 07:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition


From the Economist, January 13th 2005.

quote:



A hulking beast joins the dogfight

Airbus is about to unveil its new A380 super-jumbo (pictured). Will the 555-seat monster leave Boeing trailing in its wake?


AP.

AS DISTINCTIVE Routemaster double-decker buses disappear from the streets of London, Airbus is set to unveil a double-decker passenger jet that it hopes will repeat the success of a vehicle that is every bit as iconic: Boeing’s 747. The European consortium’s A380 super-jumbo, which is to be formally unveiled at a lavish ceremony on Tuesday January 18th, will break the 747’s longstanding monopoly of the big-jet market when it enters service in 2006. Everything about the new plane is big, from its capacity of 555 paying customers and range of 15,000km (9,320 miles) to the purpose-built hangar, one of Europe’s largest enclosed spaces, at its construction site near Toulouse in southern France. Bigger, longer-range versions are planned and so far orders have been taken for 149 super-jumbos, over halfway to break-even point.

The size of the project reflects estimates about the future demand for air travel. Despite the recent travails of big airlines, both Airbus and Boeing expect a tripling of air-passenger traffic over the next 20 years. But the transatlantic rivals disagree about how the demand should be met. Airbus thinks an extra 16,600 new large planes (over 100 seats)—a doubling of the number of passenger aircraft currently flying—will do the trick, and expects that the average number of seats in aircraft will increase by 20%, to 215. By contrast, Boeing expects sales of 18,600 slightly smaller planes.

Airbus is hoping that the A380 will help it retain the lead it gained over Boeing in 2003, when, for the first time since the European consortium emerged as a rival to Boeing in the early 1970s, it delivered more aircraft than its American competitor. Airbus, to Boeing’s extreme displeasure, kept the number-one slot in 2004 by delivering 320 planes compared with 285 from its rival, according to figures released this week.

Boeing’s seemingly unassailable lead over Airbus was founded on the success of the 747, which entered service in 1970. The original jumbo jet could carry twice as many passengers as the next largest plane then flying and had a greater range, allowing, for example, a long transatlantic flight without refuelling. Its cost per passenger mile was around one-third less than its rivals. A huge home market for the jumbo and the rest of the Boeing range ensured its ascendancy. Some 1,400 747s have been sold to date.

However, only 15 were delivered last year. And as the jumbo has aged, Boeing’s domination of the commercial airways has foundered. The aerospace giant’s product line is ailing, and attempts to revive it have met with only partial success. The big airlines showed little interest in an upgraded jumbo. And a red-faced Boeing was forced to withdraw its Sonic Cruiser, a plane intended to fly at near the speed of sound, after airlines rejected the idea that passengers would pay a hefty premium for such rapid transit.

Boeing’s latest attempt to put things right, the 250-seat 7E7 “Dreamliner”, is born out of a belief that passengers will demand, and future deregulation allow, a big increase in “point-to-point” travel: direct flights between small and medium-sized cities, as opposed to the traditional hub-and-spoke model, in which international passengers fly between a few major airports and are then taken to more out of the way places on feeder flights. Boeing hopes the new plane will prove popular with the time-conscious business flyer. It says that the 7E7’s advanced engines will cut airlines’ fuel costs by 20%. So far it has received 56 firm orders.

The A380, by contrast, is designed to fly between big hubs. Its critics say it will mean longer journey times for passengers with onward flights to smaller destinations. But Airbus is claiming a similar step-change to the one that accompanied the launch of the 747: operating costs will be 15-20% lower than those of any rival aircraft, it says. To add to Boeing’s discomfort, Airbus announced in December that it would introduce the A350 in direct competition with the Dreamliner, offering much the same specifications.

Boeing’s fears that it would be left in Airbus’s wake also prompted it to attack on another front. In October, America made a formal complaint to the World Trade Organisation alleging the payment of billions of dollars of “unfair” subsidies to Airbus. Boeing claims that “launch aid” has enabled Airbus to roll out five new products in the past ten years while it has managed just one. Like Airbus’s rapid response to the Dreamliner, the European Union immediately said that it would file a counter-claim over large sums of aid going to Boeing through indirect government subsidies from its relationship with NASA and the Pentagon. This week, the EU said that it was ready to compromise to resolve the dispute and both sides agreed to suspend hostilities (and subsidies) for three months of negotiations.

The huge projected market for passenger jets over the coming years will allow both aircraft-makers to sell plenty of new planes. The A380 aside, Airbus and Boeing seem evenly matched. The success of the super-jumbo may well determine how much higher the Europeans fly than the Americans in the next few years.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Bah, in a few years the Chinese will have reversed engineered airliners and will conquer the market in 30 years.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


The market likely wouldn't support two mega-jumbo makers plus Airbus is being massively subsidized by various governments to build this plane. How does a company which doesn't recieve any cash subsidies compete against a company that recieved truckloads of free government cash?


I wish that I could remember the article I read. I don't think that Boeing was afraid of competing. I believe that they simply thought a project like the 7E7 would be more profitable. The A380 carries 555 passengers and the 7E7 carries 289. They probably realized that with Airbus concentrating its efforts on the A380 that they could corner a more lucrative mid-size market with a similarly advanced plane.

Both have extended range and high fuel efficiency and between them should dominate the international routes within the next 10-12 years. Boeing, I think, made the smart decision. There are many more routes that would support a 289 passenger plane than would support a 555 passenger plane.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How long do you think it will take the airlines to rip out the bar and bed in order to cram in knee-to-butt seating?

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:54 Visit BeBro's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yeah they are already arguing that the plane could carry much more than those 555, depending on the seating (does that word exist ).

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by Jaakko


You saying Boeing doesn't get govt subsidies?


Boeing does not recieve cash subsidies. The closest thing to a subsidy is military purchases of aircraft and/or the standard government promotion of national products which every government on earth does.

Local governments provide incentives for companies to build factories in their town but that's small potatos and not controlled by the federal government. Airbus recieves 2-3 times that amount in hard cash for every plane it makes.

Sandman is offline Sandman
Prince
Sinister Penguin
Aug 2001
time: 05:30
  Old Post 17-01-2005 23:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I like it, simply for the efficiency and relative environmental friendliness.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:30
  Old Post 18-01-2005 00:00 Visit Dis's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

while I do think this airliner is an impressive feat. I have to side with Boeing on this one.

I do believe there won't be much demand for this jet except for international overseas travel. But for travel within the contiental U.S. I just don't see much use for something that big.

I'm always reminded of 9/11. Those planes were nearly empty!!! a 747 with only 40 passengers is not very economical. I hardly think a 555 passenger jet with 40 passengers will do very well.

Jaakko is offline Jaakko
King
in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 18-01-2005 00:00
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


Boeing does not recieve cash subsidies. The closest thing to a subsidy is military purchases of aircraft and/or the standard government promotion of national products which every government on earth does.

Local governments provide incentives for companies to build factories in their town but that's small potatos and not controlled by the federal government. Airbus recieves 2-3 times that amount in hard cash for every plane it makes.


What really counts is the result the subsidies have on each company's respective bottom lines, wouldn't you agree? Also, if there's really such a huge difference between Airbus and Boeing, surely you have the numbers to back it up?

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 18-01-2005 00:02 Visit BeBro's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
I do believe there won't be much demand for this jet except for international overseas travel. But for travel within the contiental U.S. I just don't see much use for something that big.


Infidel!

 
Pages (5): [ 1   2   3   4     >> ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30.
Apolyton Time is 00:30.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0665 seconds (92.71% PHP - 7.29% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net