21-01-2005 13:02									#91
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One of the rules of Hundred-Nil is that you cannot Hundred-Nil any discussion of the rules of Hundred-Nil.

	21-01-2005 13:22									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar But if "Own Goal!" is a customary response to posts like that, then Own Goal should cause a hundred nil

But not, because the rules say so.

It's like the sniper has you in his sights, but you drop, spin, and fire to hit him between the eyes. You win.

	21-01-2005 13:39									#93
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yers, these two are wise in the ways of all tha is good

jon Miller

	21-01-2005 13:56									#94
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I thought it was an outstanding speech that obviously had a lot of work done on it.

	21-01-2005 13:57									#95
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what werew your favorite parts?

Jkn Milelr

	21-01-2005 13:59									#96
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"This is not primarily the task of arms, though we will defend ourselves and our friends by force of arms when necessary. Freedom, by its nature, must be chosen, and defended by citizens, and sustained by the rule of law and the protection of minorities. And when the soul of a nation finally speaks, the institutions that arise may reflect customs and traditions very different from our own. America will not impose our own style of government on the unwilling. Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom, and make their own way."

That was my favorite part.

All in all, I see some people are up in arms here about this speech but that is because they cannot accept the fact it was very well done.

	21-01-2005 14:01									#97
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umm, but what do oyu call iraq?

are we not imposing are style of governement on the unwilling?

or should we note the lack of WMD and emplace Saddam again?

Jon Miller

	21-01-2005 14:03									#98
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God damn! I have to agree with Giancarlo. That was a good part.

Now if only he could live up to it. Oh, pretty please?!

	21-01-2005 14:03									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller umm, but what do oyu call iraq? are we not imposing are style of governement on the unwilling? or should we note the lack of WMD and emplace Saddam again? Jon Miller

This is wrong for several reasons, we aren't imposing our cultural values on Iraq. The Iraqis wanted to have a vote. There has been a poll done recently showing most want a vote done. I think it is wrong you bring Iraq up. It isn't imposing a government on the unwilling. It is asking them to choose their government by elections. I'm sure human beings in their right mind want elections, and I don't see why Iraqis can't have that.

	21-01-2005 14:06									#100
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we went into there with soldiers

and are resisted

there are definitely unwilling there

as too who is the majority, I hvaen't seen anything that proves one way or another

JOn Miller

	21-01-2005 14:08									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller we went into there with soldiers and are resisted there are definitely unwilling there as too who is the majority, I hvaen't seen anything that proves one way or another JOn Miller

There were unwilling in Yugoslavia too...

We went into there with soldiers for a good reason to topple a regime of contrary aims to that of democracy. I think the Iraqi people very well do deserve a democracy. They don't deserve a dictatorship. Nobody does.

	21-01-2005 14:10									#102
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None of the commies seem to be around, so I'll point out to Gia that spreading democracy was not number one on the agenda.

	21-01-2005 14:11									#103
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither None of the commies seem to be around, so I'll point out to Gia that spreading democracy was not number one on the agenda.

Of course the war against terror is, then spreading democracy. That is what a lot of what this speech was about.

	21-01-2005 14:12									#104
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most everyone knows thate

the point being is that some (mnabey the majority) prefered things the wayt they were

and there are other areas which are more obviously oppressed (if we are being paladins)

Jon miller

	21-01-2005 14:15									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller most everyone knows thate the point being is that some (mnabey the majority) prefered things the wayt they were and there are other areas which are more obviously oppressed (if we are being paladins) Jon miller

Have you been drinking? I'm not trying to be offensive but just am curious.

And did anybody see those dumb protesters? What a odd bunch of people...

	21-01-2005 14:16									#106
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yes, I have been drinking a bit

were their protestors?

I would bet so, but I didn't know

I thought about going down and protesting, than decided that it wouldn't do any good

Jon Miller

	21-01-2005 14:16									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Of course the war against terror is, then spreading democracy. That is what a lot of what this speech was about.

I hate to break it to you, Giancarlo, but spreading democracy was a byproduct of othe aims. Kinda like fertilizer is a byproduct of raising cattle.

Don;t get me wrong, I'm all for democracy and fertilizer both, but neither was anywhere near the primary aim in the local instance.

	21-01-2005 14:17									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Have you been drinking? I'm not trying to be offensive but just am curious.

Pay attention children...

Own Goal!

	21-01-2005 14:19									#109
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I hate to break it to you, Giancarlo, but spreading democracy was a byproduct of othe aims. Kinda like fertilizer is a byproduct of raising cattle. Don;t get me wrong, I'm all for democracy and fertilizer both, but neither was anywhere near the primary aim in the local instance.

I would actually be fine with it if it was about democracy

and was done well

this is done poorly

and isn't set up to encourage democracy

as such, I am against it (in general, so on the surface I am sort of apathetic about the whole going into iraq thing)

Jon Miller

	21-01-2005 14:19									#110
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Don;t get me wrong, I'm all for democracy and fertilizer both, but neither was anywhere near the primary aim in the local instance.

But we are talking about this speech and that is what was highlighted as a primary goal.

	21-01-2005 14:21									#111
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ok, so good speech

but does it seem to be relevant?

or only propaganda?

Jon miller

	21-01-2005 14:23									#112
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither None of the commies seem to be around, so I'll point out to Gia that spreading democracy was not number one on the agenda.

I am around, though I think it is obvious to any rational person that the GWB administration doesn't care about democracy. It's just window dressing, just like terrorism is the new bogeyman.

	21-01-2005 14:23									#113
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All I can say Giancarlo, is that I hope that Bush is putting his own Iraq policy out with the trash and adopting a different course. Of course Iraq is already yours. You broke it, you fix it.

	21-01-2005 14:23									#114
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It is damn relevant, and it is not being done poorly.

	21-01-2005 14:25									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I am around, though I think it is obvious to any rational person that the GWB administration doesn't care about democracy. It's just window dressing, just like terrorism is the new bogeyman.

No, that would just be propaganda from Beijing, or Paris.

	21-01-2005 14:25									#116
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither All I can say Giancarlo, is that I hope that Bush is putting his own Iraq policy out with the trash and adopting a different course. Of course Iraq is already yours. You broke it, you fix it.

Absolutely not. The current policy in Iraq is a working policy and I give you scorn for suggesting otherwise. We didn't break anything. Iraq was already broken. And it isn't mine. It is the people of Iraq.

	21-01-2005 14:25									#117
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yeah

I really hope that he has changed

since he was voted in

but I wouldn't betg on it

Jon Miller

	21-01-2005 14:28									#118
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither No, that would just be propaganda from Beijing, or Paris.

You are not a rational person. QED

	21-01-2005 14:28									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller yeah I really hope that he has changed since he was voted in but I wouldn't betg on it Jon Miller

I wouldn't bet against it, after the last year. You'd have to be a moron of biblical proportions to think that all had gone well.

Good people make mistakes. Even average people learn from them.

	21-01-2005 14:30									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You are not a rational person. QED

depends on if you thought that a continued adherence to Mao and his heirs as a good government were rational, in my abrasive opinion.