22-01-2005 01:56									#31
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Workbench, GEM, GEOS...




Take your pick.

	22-01-2005 01:57									#32
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quote: It's not user error when the Red Hat partition wizard hard-locks while processing, my friend.

Actually, it is.

Why did you ever use Red Hat?

	22-01-2005 01:58									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed Actually, it is. Why did you ever use Red Hat?

Because I was trying to find one that worked.

I had already tried Gentoo, Debian, SuSE, and Mandrake by that time, and was told Red Hat would have a chance of working.

	22-01-2005 01:59									#34
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quote: I had already tried Gentoo, Debian, SuSE, and Mandrake by that time, and was told Red Hat would have a chance of working.

Like I said, I honestly don't understand why you have such bad luck with Linux.

Particularly Gentoo.

	22-01-2005 02:01									#35
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Because I actually have modern, complex hardware -- something that Linux cannot cope with as well as Windows for the desktop.

Blame companies for driver development if you want, or blame me for having such a customized rig, but the fact is it's impossible for me to install Linux on my computer. And it's not even new anymore, it's been around since August 2003.

	22-01-2005 02:04									#36
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quote: Because I actually have modern, complex hardware -- something that Linux cannot cope with as well as Windows for the desktop.

And my work computer is using modern, relatively complex hardware.

And linux is working fine.

I honestly think that the Gods are purposely fubaring any attempts you do on installing any other OS.

	22-01-2005 02:07									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed And my work computer is using modern, relatively complex hardware.

So it uses a RAID controlled by an onboard RAID BIOS? Not a "software RAID" that would not support multiple OSes, such as Windows?

	22-01-2005 02:09									#38
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We've been over this before, Asher.

	22-01-2005 02:10									#39
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Yes, and as I recall Linux does not support such a thing.

	22-01-2005 02:13									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I also totally broke my Debian install some time ago, trying to install gaim (a simple instant messenger). It needed a newer version of gtk-runtime, so I installed that. But wait! Gnome doesn't work with that gtk-runtime!

So, did you hit something like CTRL+ALT+F2, login, run aptitude, and select working packages?

	22-01-2005 02:14									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Are you kidding? I've been a heavy computer user since ~1990 and was the guy people came to for computer help all through the 90s. I can't recall how many times I've configured the DOS extended memory settings for my friends. There's almost always an alternative to reformatting, it's just a nearly guaranteed way to fix a problem. Too many people try to reboot, retry, reformat. All formatting does is give you a clean slate, it's a cheap way out of resolving a problem. I always try to dig down to the core of a problem. I almost resorted to reformatting once, when Partition Magic totally screw Windows up to the point that it couldn't even boot in safe mode. I'm pretty sure more than 99% of people would've just reformatted in such a case, but I found a DOS bootdisk with NTFS capabilities and removed all trace of Partition Magic from Windows myself.

My mistake.

Then I guess you're the sort that would rather spend time fixing problems instead of reverting to backups and getting on with your work/play?

I lost my patience for OS troubleshooting anything less-than-obvious a long time ago, having worked as a local PC shop technician in my youth. I have kept nightly backups since the second time Win95 crashed on me.

Norton Ghost was my most treasured tool for many years - now it's VMWare.

	22-01-2005 02:15									#42
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo So, did you hit something like CTRL+ALT+F2, login, run aptitude, and select working packages?

I tried aptitude actually, it wasn't any better.

	22-01-2005 02:29									#43
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Well, if you have a really fast computer with a ton of memory here's an idea:

1. Switch to Linspire. With Linspire you'll forget that you're in a Linux environment. Linspire's easy-to-use interface is so similiar to Windows that you won't have to learn anything new. Use Linspire just for running your applications.
   
2. Go into Linspire's Click-N-Run Warehouse and there you can install VMware with the click of a button. With VMware you install and run your copy of Windows XP Pro inside of Linux (no need to dual-boot), which will allow you to run your Windows games natively. And btw, I hear Windows runs much smoother inside a virtual machine than it does by itself. I'd hit it.

	22-01-2005 02:32									#44
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Linspire is a steaming pile of crap.

It's not as useful as most Linux distros, and not as useful as Windows. It's a horrible Linux distro that costs more and does less than everyone else.

	22-01-2005 02:35									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Linspire is a steaming pile of crap. It's not as useful as most Linux distros, and not as useful as Windows. It's a horrible Linux distro that costs more and does less than everyone else.

Whatever.

No matter what anyone says, it's still the easiest-to-use Linux ever.

	22-01-2005 02:40									#46
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quote: Linspire is a steaming pile of crap.

agreed.

quote: No matter what anyone says, it's still the easiest-to-use Linux ever.

wrong again.

you can get "ease of use" in any linux distro by installing the gnome/kde desktop and installing a decent package management system, far better than the idiotic CNR system linspire uses.

indeed, just what distributions have you used? ever tried the loads more useful Xandros? Knoppix/Gnoppix? Lycoris?

in gentoo, if you want a windowsish desktop, you can always
emerge -va xpde

of course, your advice is coming from a mac fanboi, whose last thread on "omfg t3h best linux 3v4R!!!11" had a poll that was unusable because it clearly showed a complete lack of knowledge on the concept of differing linux distributions.

sure, try linspire, if you want. or, actually show yourself some respect and use other distributions instead, most of which are just as easy--or easier.

	22-01-2005 02:42									#47
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quote: ...With VMware you install and run your copy of Windows XP Pro inside of Linux (no need to dual-boot), which will allow you to run your Windows games natively.

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand how VMWare or VirtualPC works.

Sure, it runs your Windows apps natively, but have you actually seen what hardware it emulates?

Good luck trying to run UT2004, Half-Life 2, SimCity 4... Using VMWare, you'll be consigned to playing games that do not require a 3d graphics card. Which, unfortunately for you, means that for most people, the VMWare solution is non-viable.

Not to mention the fact that you'd have to purchase VMWare as well.

quote: And btw, I hear Windows runs much smoother inside a virtual machine than it does by itself. I'd hit it.

Does Windows run smoother? Does it really? Having used both VMWare, Bochs, VirtualPC, and Virtual Server, I can safely say that no, it doesn't.
The performance hit from emulating certain bits of hardware, even on extremely high-end systems, is enough to be annoying.

	22-01-2005 02:49									#48
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Heck, even Alpha Centauri is a pain to run under VMWare.

	22-01-2005 02:51									#49
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Someone else can take over from here.

* MNG doesn't read (sometimes) or reply (never) to Crazy Q's posts.

Crazy Q.

	22-01-2005 02:51									#50
	Re: Re: Will there ever be a decent alternative to Windows? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by St Leo Having read The Old New Thing for some time (...)

Me too. I'm not entirely sure why, though, because all of the down-and-dirty Windows programming stuff goes right over my head and I'm not really interested in it either.

	22-01-2005 03:02									#51
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quote: MNG doesn't read (sometimes) or reply (never) to Crazy Q's posts.

Which is why you have so many misconceptions about Linux, among other things ( as has been demonstrated by your impression of VMWare and virtual machines. as well as boot loaders. and windows computing. and... )

Way to go for closed-mindedness!

	22-01-2005 05:00									#52
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Asher, your luck with Linux is amazing. Heck, I am able to run it without any big screwups, although it's still a long way before I can call myself a Linux power-user, but it works very well for me, and I do not like it when I have to boot to Windows now.

The issue of reformatting... it all depends on what you want or need to do. I agree that getting down to the core of the problem and fixing it is more fun. Having done clean installs on many computers, doing a reformat & reinstall is fast and boring, obviously. And does solve the problem. Investigating the problem otherwise and fixing it is interesting and challenging, I agree. But it just doesn't work that way... because usually, speed is of essence. I just can't afford to spend an entire day on a problem that I can fix much faster by reformatting - although the slow way is more fun.

Linspire... gee, it's awful. What it succeeds at is taking the worst of Windows and bringing it to Linux. It doesn't have as much power as normal Linux has, and it does lose the stability of Linux as well. True, it will run many Windows apps... but then again, with a little bit of time and reading, I was, as many Linux users, able to set Linux up to run some Windows apps through Wine and other emulators.

	22-01-2005 05:04									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The hell they aren't. Do you know how difficult it is to install, say, Unreal Tournament 2004 on Linux? Even if you have a Nvidia video card, etc...

I wouldn't know. I don't use Linux for gaming.

	22-01-2005 08:44									#54
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quote: Originally posted by dejon Then I guess you're the sort that would rather spend time fixing problems instead of reverting to backups and getting on with your work/play?

That's because Asher never worked in tech support in a company where work always was piling up. Spending hours looking for a solution to an elusive problem is a big no-no.

There's a good reason why HDD bit imaging software is useful. Reformat, dump, go.

	22-01-2005 08:47									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed The performance hit from emulating certain bits of hardware, even on extremely high-end systems, is enough to be annoying.

If you can handle programs written in Java or similar languages, this can't be so annoying, eh?

	22-01-2005 08:51									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Because I actually have modern, complex hardware -- something that Linux cannot cope with as well as Windows for the desktop.

Then you're speaking from a PoV that's different from 99% of computer users, particularly corporate IT departments.

	22-01-2005 08:53									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's because Asher never worked in tech support in a company where work always was piling up. Spending hours looking for a solution to an elusive problem is a big no-no. There's a good reason why HDD bit imaging software is useful. Reformat, dump, go.

Reimaging is far better than reformatting in most cases.

And you're right, I've never had to work in tech support.

	22-01-2005 08:54									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Then you're speaking from a PoV that's different from 99% of computer users, particularly corporate IT departments.

Corporate IT departments worth their salt have at least RAID1 on the workstations.

	22-01-2005 09:14									#59
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I'm coming out of the closet.

I support Microsoft Windows.

honestly. I haven't had that many problems with it. I don't see what's so bad about it. What's so bad about Microsoft?

	22-01-2005 11:52									#60
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Yeah, I don't get it either. On this computer, I started with W98, upgraded to W98 service pack (if that's what they called it), upgraded to XP home, and then installed XP home service pack 2 with no reformats, no reinstallations... and no problems.