25-01-2005 17:53									#1
	Bad in science, bad with relationships. Help needed Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I really can't understand how could I be as fast as computer to get new advances.

If I will try to but most of my money to science, computer players still get advances much faster.

If I will try to be nice and buy/sell advances, it works when I sometimes can get an advance others don't have. But that happens only in the beginning of the game. After that computer players don't sell me new advances :-(

So how can I be as fast as computer players? Any hints? Or guides?


Another thing is relationships. How can I keep other players happy with me? They are usually annoyed or even angry. Should I give them money often or what?

	25-01-2005 20:17									#2
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Which techs are you researching later on, when you find the AIs do not want to trade with you?

Are you putting Roads on all your tiles?

	25-01-2005 20:58									#3
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I will fall so badly behind with techs later that I can't trade anything because all AIs have already all techs that I could try to advance.

I am using roads everywhere

	25-01-2005 21:37									#4
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It is hard to know what the issues are with the data we have. Did you manage to research better than the AI at any level, with regularity?

If you are playing at the higher levels, then being behind is the norm, how long is a function of the level and your style.

The Ai being annoyed is common if you have resources and lux that you are not trading. It is common, if you are larger than that civ and are not trading with them.

If you are playing the middle levels, then you should be able to hold your own at some point. So my questions are what level is the game, what size is the map and how many civs and the map type?

In general at Monarch or less and not being able to catch up on research, then it is an empire management issue.

	25-01-2005 22:28									#5
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I am now playing emperor level. In lower levels I can research better (maybe not well enought?). I am usually playing in middle size map with about 10 (8-12) players.

Usually I play peacefully. Not attacking unless there seems to be couple of nice cities to catch or if AI is going to fall because other AIs are attacking against it. Of course I defend against AI attacks and get the cities back (the cities AI has managed to get from me).

I am usually middle size empire (or a little smaller) and my power is usually little below average. I am usually trading if I have extra luxury or resources.

I haven't been playing in a while and when I started again, I remembered that I have always been quite poor in these two things.


How often should I contact AIs? Should I try to give them gifts? What kind of gifts?

And how much (about) should I spend to science? And how many of the advances should I got from AIs (buy/trade) and how many of them should I research by myself?

I have tried to find something about these two issues from your guides, but these two areas seems not to be discussed in guides or forums.

Last edited by janilxx on 25-01-2005 at 23:49

	26-01-2005 00:05									#6
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Ok Monarch, is this C3C or not? I will presume it is C3C for now as vanillla civ is easier. If you have a good start, you can stay pretty close to the Ai in tech with good management and some smart trading and near max researching.

If any of these pieces are missing, then you will fall behind in the late ancient age and can catch up in the late middle age.

The map size you mentioned, I guess is large? A std map would be 8 players normally. With a large map and less than the full number of civs (12), you should have an easier time.

Peaceful play should not be a factor at this level, presuming you do as you say and bash them when they attack.

Once the land is starting to get taken, you want to have the military advisor saying your are at least average to them and not weak. If you are weak they will try to extort you.

I am not one to advise on trading as I am more inclined to not trade much after the ancient age. In the main, I look for techs that can be traded to many civs and rarely trade resources. Lux I with hold after industrial age, unless some special circumstances.

If you were in a game where you would be weak all the time, then I make more frequent contacts and trades. The more you stay in contact the better they like it.

Gifts are probably not need at Monarch, unless you want something. I often give my map after I have all the land in my borders and there is no place for them to settle or I can block that area. I tend to do this with civs that are no threat to me. If you give gold, make it at least 10.

One way to give a gift that cost nothing is to intend to sell a tech, but they do not have enough gold to make it worthwhile. You then give them some gold and then sell the tech. You get your gold back, but they percieve you as having given a gift.

Research I do in extremes. I will go as hard as I can afford or as litle as possible, maybe just one scientist. Be sure to get as many contacts as soon as you can to reduce the price of any known techs and of course to trade or buy any you can. My only exception to buying is to not buy from any KAI.

I would expect to do most of my research at Monarch as I should be able to beat them to techs at least by industrial age. If you are not doing that, then go for a tech that is not being researched and trade it around for cash or techs. The cash will slow them and under write your research. At the higher levels they will not have any cash.

Post a save if you want for clarification.

	26-01-2005 00:20									#7
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Hum, did you change the level to emperor or did I fail to read it properly?

Well the difference is not great. The timelines are extended a bit as you probably will need to have more time to do your own research. You may even go for the GL and hoard cash for upgrades, but as a peaceful player maybe not.

So it is not uncommon to find you are cut out of the loop in the middle ages, if you did not have a good start and make the most of it. You should still be able to get back in the research race by the industrial age. At least enough to get a shot at the ToE.

So the main difference is you may take the GL no research path until Education. I would say a peaceful player could do the GL and keep researching some optional techs when they are available and get one or two before the Lib is obsolete.

After that I am very careful about trading techs and time them so they get something and do not hurt me much.

I think a quasi peaceful style is better at emperor. That is where you rarely start wars, but are prepared to do serious damage when you are in one. Get others to war with other civs when you can to slow down their research and wonder building.

Be careful to not get a KAI going any sooner than it would otherwise.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 26-01-2005 at 02:51

	26-01-2005 00:21									#8
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BTW we have a few good threads on emperor games. I think Ducki and Moutain Sage are in the strat forum.

	26-01-2005 00:41									#9
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Being a builder at Emperor is doable, it's just more difficult.

The important thing is that the AI is more cranky at Emperor than Monarch. (With standard moods), so you need more military units to keep the peace.

And also, I'm pickier about my starting land conditions on Emperor.

The science question is it depends. If your commerical or seafaring on stock conquests, Writing in 50 turns at one science beaker praticlarly screams out. Otherwise, if the map isn't so big that Pottery takes a very long time, it's often a good choice.

Expect to fall behind in techs during the ancient era on Emperor, athough several units exploring and discovering bypassed goody huts will delay that.

Sometime during the middle ages depending upon your REX and civ strengths you should bottom out and start to catch up.
Sometime during late middle ages to early industrial era you should catch up. (If all else fails while all AIs are reseraching Nationalism - Communism - Fascism) ToE should give you a tech lead if you don't have it already.

Exploration is your friend. Contacts can give you techs, PP itself can give you techs, maps can give you techs.

Active trade deals make the AI slightly less cranky.

	26-01-2005 00:42									#10
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oops, double post

	26-01-2005 02:08									#11
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Also, for better AI civ attitudes, make sure to place embassies.

	26-01-2005 08:33									#12
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quote: Bad in science, bad with relationships. Help needed

So, how's your sex life??

J/K.

The above advice by vxma1, jon, and Theseus are right on for playing at this level. I play SP on Emperor quite a bit. A nice level where you can still try to play builder, as mentioned above. The higher levels force you into a more focused, and singular approach to the game ( ie bonking heads).

	26-01-2005 10:50									#13
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quote: Hum, did you change the level to emperor or did I fail to read it properly?

I was hoping to be fast enough so that no one would not see the word "monarch". But I failed. I wrote it without checking my current game's level. But I decided to check it later and then I noticed that I was wrong.

quote: A std map would be 8 players normally.

I am using standard map (I didn't remember this name (standard) and used middle size). I have changed player number from the BIQ (or what was that) file. I like to play with more players but not in too big map.


Thanks to everyone for helping me. My new game will begin shortly, because Egypt has 8 spaceship parts... And I don't have event tanks yet :-( (Egypt has the whole big continent, and I am much smaller)

	26-01-2005 12:07									#14
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In the scenario properties you can change the number of players. Just know that the more players in the game the faster the Ai can research.

The sooner they make contacts, the faster they can research. The sooner the land is nearly settled, the sooner they will get aggressive, all things being equal.

I don't recall having had the Ai launch a ship on me, even on Sid. I have had them kill me or win by culture. It may be worth your time to post a save in your next game some time in the 40-60 turn time frame.

FYI do not use an autosave, make a save directly as they are much smaller and will be within the size limits.

	26-01-2005 12:53									#15
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Janilxx, I have a suggestion for you:
I'm a Regent/Monarch level player and I was always defeated at Emperor level.
Now I'm playing a Training Succession Game
described in Apolyton University Section and I'm learning a lot about tech trading and strategies for this level. Veterans are correcting my errors and I feel I'm improving.
Why don't you read this thread and maybe join the game?
We are now near the beginning of Industrial Age and we are a bit behind the AIs, but I think we can win the game.

	26-01-2005 13:44									#16
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 In the scenario properties you can change the number of players. Just know that the more players in the game the faster the Ai can research.

Yeah, I hadn't thought that at all. I will change number of players back to the default.

	26-01-2005 14:10									#17
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Or, in fact, I think I will try
Apolyton University Mod next.

	26-01-2005 19:39									#18
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Having never tried the AU mod, my overall impression of it is that is makes things harder for the human player, not easier. But I'll defer to actual users of it if someone else chimes in.

	26-01-2005 19:46									#19
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Having never tried the AU mod, my overall impression of it is that is makes things harder for the human player, not easier. But I'll defer to actual users of it if someone else chimes in.

I am not seeking easy game. Instead I enjoy a lot if AI is "really" intelligent. Usually AIs are stupid even they can win me.

	26-01-2005 20:05									#20
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Having never tried the AU mod, my overall impression of it is that is makes things harder for the human player, not easier.

The purpose of the mod is not to make things easier on the human player. Nor is it to make things harder, but it may feel like this for a couple of reasons: one, the AU mod tries to improve the AI to make it more competitive longer; two, the AU mod tries to present the human player with more valid strategic options, which may seem like it makes the game harder because one has to think more.

So, for instance, one big change in the mod is that Curraghs move much slower in Sea tiles. This was done to address the "suicide" exploit where the human player gets Contacts far earlier than the AI is able to do so. While this does make the game harder in an absolute sense, it's no harder than playing the game without using the exploit (which many players do not).

	27-01-2005 10:27									#21
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As a builder on the emperor level or higher, when you're behind on technology, which I usually am in the late ancient throughout most of the middle ages, the easiest way I’ve found to catch up is to drop tech down to 10% or 0%, put everything else you can into cash, and buy all the techs you can. I can usually earn enough money to buy a tech about every 5 or 6 turns or so. A t that rate of buying techs, you should be able to catch up with the AI's by around the end of the Middle Ages. Once you've caught up, switch it around and put as much as you can into some techs the AI's don't have and probably aren't currently researching. For example, in the industrial age, the AI's almost always get nationalism first, then industrialization, then last they get medicine, so at that point I'll try to research medicine first. If you're the first person in the world to research something like medicine, you're sitting on a gold mine; you can trade it and sell it to all of the AI's at once (make sure you do it on your turn, and all on the same turn, or they'll sell to each other). That should get you whatever techs you don't have yet, as well as tons of money; AI's on emperor level are often really rich, and with your new tech, you can usually drain them all of pretty much everything they have. Now you're suddenly tied with all the AI's on a technical level and you have enough gold coming in from them that you can probably afford to go 90% or 100% science and pull ahead in sciences. When I’m a builder and not involved in any major wars, I try to never research a tech that someone else has; I find that you’re better off researching one that no one else has, and then either buying the other techs or trading the tech you have for the one you don’t.

	29-01-2005 00:05									#22
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quote: Originally posted by wertyu70 I'm a Regent/Monarch level player and I was always defeated at Emperor level.Now I'm playing a Training Succession Game described in Apolyton University Section and I'm learning a lot about tech trading and strategies for this level.

I should do that, too. I can almost always beat Monarch but Emp is more of a challenge. I need to learn how to prevent a KAI on Emperor. If I get a strong AI on Emperor, I'm doomed. If I get a strong AI on Monarch, usually I can wipe them out militarily.