25-01-2005 20:16									#1
	Should we open this private forum to the public? Get a bigger avatar today!

Game is over, and I'm sure a lot of people might be interested in seeing what when on behind the scenes. Of course there are many things that are also best kept to ourselves:

- The sometimes nasty in-fighting among ourselves
- The accusations of cheating and other insults hurled at Lucky
- The level of detail in our game-playing.

Personally, I am not afraid of having the first two points go public but a part of me is rather reluctant to show the other teams just how intensive our micro-managing went as it can be used against us in the future. Then again, if we really think we are the best, we should not be afraid of anyone, no matter how good they are.

So, if we do decide to go public, what do we do? Do we make this forum public? Do we simply allow access to certain individuals (OctavianX, Bongo, Miccofl for example), or do we simply make public a number of crucial threads (perhaps move them to the SPDG forum or make another forum for the public) and leave the rest here forever. Any other idea is also welcome...

So, whaddaya all say?

-MZ

P.S. This is not an official poll or anything, I just want to get the team's feelings on the issue...

	25-01-2005 21:04									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

MZ, it's strange to see my views are directly opposed to yours... of course, I hold no influence here whatsoever even if I'm a long time lurker and voter.

Reasons 1 and 2, the bickering and cheating accusations are for me what must keep this forum private. I would be terribly ashamed if this leaks out in full detail. Maybe a few 'poly members on other teams could join the forum if they are interested (Oct X and Bongo especially), but the general public? No way!

Reason 3, the amount of micromanagement and strategy discussions done, would make a half-reason to open it up. However any recognition to the work done by some of our members on that level, would be completely destroyed when it is drowned in the flood of aggressive posts.

In other words: no way!

DeepO

	25-01-2005 21:29									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

btw, another idea is to "purge" the forum of all the ugly flame threads and just leave the in-game related ones here, then open it to the public. Alas, since I now lack t3h 1337 pOw3rZ to edit polls, I'll leave it to one of the mods to add this option.

* Master Zen looks at WIA

Likewise some of the stuff like E_T's spreadsheets were never meant by him to be used outside this game.

	25-01-2005 23:16									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DeepO MZ, it's strange to see my views are directly opposed to yours... of course, I hold no influence here whatsoever even if I'm a long time lurker and voter. Reasons 1 and 2, the bickering and cheating accusations are for me what must keep this forum private. I would be terribly ashamed if this leaks out in full detail. Maybe a few 'poly members on other teams could join the forum if they are interested (Oct X and Bongo especially), but the general public? No way! Reason 3, the amount of micromanagement and strategy discussions done, would make a half-reason to open it up. However any recognition to the work done by some of our members on that level, would be completely destroyed when it is drowned in the flood of aggressive posts. In other words: no way! DeepO

:toolazytogetthe"imwithstupid"iconfromMZO:

We could copy some of our strategy threads to the UN, but I don't think any major portions of this forum should be made public.

	26-01-2005 01:38									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'd be ok with a few certain persons getting access...like bongo, miccofl, loius XIV, GF, OctX.

	26-01-2005 03:05									#6
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO MZ, it's strange to see my views are directly opposed to yours... of course, I hold no influence here whatsoever even if I'm a long time lurker and voter. Reasons 1 and 2, the bickering and cheating accusations are for me what must keep this forum private. I would be terribly ashamed if this leaks out in full detail. Maybe a few 'poly members on other teams could join the forum if they are interested (Oct X and Bongo especially), but the general public? No way! Reason 3, the amount of micromanagement and strategy discussions done, would make a half-reason to open it up. However any recognition to the work done by some of our members on that level, would be completely destroyed when it is drowned in the flood of aggressive posts. In other words: no way!

I am 100% with DeepO this time.

	26-01-2005 03:43									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

What Deepo said

Selected players from other teams can be allowed in. Like those already mentioned.

	26-01-2005 04:16									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel What Deepo said Selected players from other teams can be allowed in. Like those already mentioned.

Yeah, plus I really don't think I have the patience to weed out every b*tchy or classified post in this entire forum.... that's years of them, and certainly not a tiny minority of posts either!

	26-01-2005 05:18									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by vondrack I am 100% with DeepO this time.

Now that'll be a first

DeepO

	26-01-2005 05:24									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

if a thread is linked to from this forum, only that one is visible, right? It doesn't open the possibility to see the rest of the forum, right? In that case, we might do it the Firaxis' way, and turn a bug into a feature: we could give the link to Vondrack's logs. It's about the most detailed AAR there exists, and even if it only goes to a certain turn, it would be dry, without any bashing whatsoever. It would not give the larger picture and probably should be checked to see if there are no exterior links (e.g. to turn threads), but it would give people something to gaze over.

Personally, I don't think that is needed, but let's just throw it out there as a possible idea.

DeepO

	26-01-2005 05:47									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I told Markos about that bug a while ago and he fixed it (private forum threads showed up in searches also, which is a major security threat), so you cannot access a thread in a private forum by any means unless you belong to that group.

	26-01-2005 05:51									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

okay, but in that case, it may be one of the few threads that can be lifted out of this private forum and into public without any wrong information in it. Again, not saying I would vote for it, just giving the possibility.

DeepO

	26-01-2005 08:18									#13
	Remove this text

This was a simple one for me. No.

This is an Apolyton forum. Many souls were bared, and many teeth were gnashed (great grammar there), and at the end of the day, I say it stays here. Behind closed doors.

	27-01-2005 04:09									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Here's a little alternative...

Some of you might recall that shortly before our war with GCA Poly suffered major stability problems for over a week. During that time, turnthreads were posted on MZO and some discussion went around there. I just looked at the threads and none seem incriminating or flame-ish since the whole cheating scandal hadn't occured yet.

So, you guys might want to take a look at it:

http://forums.mzocentral.net/index.php?showforum=66


I don't see what at least this bit shouldn't be made public

-MZ

	27-01-2005 04:11									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Btw, I still think that we should at least allow certain people to access this forum, these are trustworthy people who I doubt will go babbling about our bickering to everyone else. These would be:

- From CFC: OctavianX
- From CDG: GhengisFarb
- From GWT: Bongo
- From CGN: Miccofl

	27-01-2005 05:31									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

MZ, what is the point exactly in letting others in, if they are not allowed to share information in their team? I mean, it's not that I'm opposed to it, but is there something we gain, or do we return someone a favour in doing so?

The people you mention seem fine, and except for Miccofl they are active 'poly members AFAIK, but unless they ask it themselves specifically, is it okay to offer access here?

Is there a need to share is basically what I'm asking. You acknowledge that we need 'trustworthy' persons to avoid letting the bickering out, but why let out anything at all? Others might be interested in a detailed AAR, but a forum? If you were offered access to GCA's forum, are you going to read everything posted?

DeepO

	27-01-2005 14:55									#17
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because if everyone else makes their forums public and we don't it's going to look rather... odd.

Granted, we should first see what other teams do to theirs before we decide.

	27-01-2005 23:31									#18
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Perhaps other teams don't talk about Lucky so much, or don't care that they do. Perhaps other teams don't have flame matches go on inside their forums.

And what does it matter what other teams do? I hate to say it, but... if everyone else jumped off the golden gate bridge, would you?

	28-01-2005 04:17									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Perhaps other teams don't talk about Lucky so much, or don't care that they do. Perhaps other teams don't have flame matches go on inside their forums. And what does it matter what other teams do? I hate to say it, but... if everyone else jumped off the golden gate bridge, would you?

Of course!

No, my resaoning is that given that the game WAS mired by accusations of cheating, that us not allowing people to access our forum would perhaps appear as if we're trying to hide something.

	28-01-2005 04:36									#20
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Would make sense... because we are.

	28-01-2005 14:56									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

No opening of the forum! All the in-depth analyses should remain an Apolyton secret forever...

	02-02-2005 02:40									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

There is just far too much to read in our archives. The good stuff and detailed plans would get lost amidst the massive amount of spam and chatter and discussions around them.

What would happen is that some of the more noticable topics about cheating or wars or whatnot would get read and fixated on. Things would likely get read out of context. Individuals would get a reputation they probably don't deserve.

I don't think santitizing it is the answer. I think the answer is just to have people available to answer questions about the game and to post logs/threads about certain questions if appropriate. It would be far better we just share stories and tales and highlights than to give them unfettered access to this massive forum, where I doubt they'll find what they're looking for, but they'll certainly find something to stew about.

--Togas

	02-02-2005 19:23									#23
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Btw, I still think that we should at least allow certain people to access this forum, these are trustworthy people who I doubt will go babbling about our bickering to everyone else. These would be: - From CFC: OctavianX - From CDG: GhengisFarb - From GWT: Bongo - From CGN: Miccofl

I would have no problem with this as long as they take an oath of silence so to speak. That means no sharing of ANYTHING in here with other teams.

We are doing some of this stuff in the C3C ISDG, this doesn't need to get out. And quite frankly I dont care what other teams think. We all know we didn't cheat and thats good enough for me.

And there are things in this forum we have said about other teams and about each other that should "NEVER" see the light of day. Just MHO

Add a manual vote for "No", Im still having problems voting in polls without hitting the button about a thousand times and Im not really in the mood nor have the time for that right now.

	03-02-2005 11:42									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

Never seeing the light of day should include never being viewed by those people listed.

If people don't like this forum remaining closed, f*** 'em. We didn't play this game to satisfy some later day voyeuristic impluse.