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beingofone
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U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:28
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Dauphin
quote:
One of its functions is to make the miraculous seem ordinary, and turn the unusual into the usual. Otherwise, human beings, forced with the daily wondrousness of everything, would go around wearing a stupid grin, saying "WOW" a lot. Part of the brain exists to stop this happening. It is very efficient, and can make people experience boredom in the middle of marvels |
I believe this - though we might be the only two that do.
It gives us time to ponder ice cream.
"WOW" good post dude 
A few quick questions.
1- If there are billions of cells that make up our body, and they all are performing some vital function like see, smell etc.
Which cell is the leader cell that organized all this?
Did he read the DNA blueprint somewhere so all the cells know their job?
2- If we do not understand how brain activity works (Adrian Hon`s post and others) we only know it is working.
And if this function is a requirement for awareness.
How can one make the gigantic leap to say
" I understand where life originated and and have a grasp on the nature of life`s existence"?
3- Intiger - can mean any number, the number zero or a secondary meaning is
" a complete entity".
Are you a complete entity? And if so how do you know you are a complete entity unless you compare yourself to someone or something?
And if you compare yourself, you by the nature of a comparison are incomplete - hmm ?
Maybe the answer is so simple - it is hard.
Children may understand more then we know.
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Provost Harrison
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The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone
A few quick questions.
1- If there are billions of cells that make up our body, and they all are performing some vital function like see, smell etc.
Which cell is the leader cell that organized all this?
Did he read the DNA blueprint somewhere so all the cells know their job? |
Basically a fractal pattern, as cells divide, hormones are released, cells differentiate. DNA is not a 'blueprint' as you know it, but it does act effectively as a 'timetable' for each cell with genes being switched on and off as appropriate depending on how it is hormonally controlled, stage of cell cycle and even how many cycles have occurred. That pattern dictates how it gets to this point. There is a lot to be learned about developmental biology, especially the molecular biology aspects of it. But we are getting there - it is just extraordinarily complex, that is all.
quote:
2- If we do not understand how brain activity works (Adrian Hon`s post and others) we only know it is working.
And if this function is a requirement for awareness.
How can one make the gigantic leap to say
" I understand where life originated and and have a grasp on the nature of life`s existence"? |
We have the tools to find it out is the most confident quote we can make. The Bible gives no answers apart from those which have been concocted. The brain is extremely complex again, and it will take time to understand...
quote:
3- Intiger - can mean any number, the number zero or a secondary meaning is
" a complete entity".
Are you a complete entity? And if so how do you know you are a complete entity unless you compare yourself to someone or something?
And if you compare yourself, you by the nature of a comparison are incomplete - hmm ?
Maybe the answer is so simple - it is hard.
Children may understand more then we know. |
Cogito ergo sum.
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beingofone
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U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Basically a fractal pattern, as cells divide, hormones are released, cells differentiate. DNA is not a 'blueprint' as you know it, but it does act effectively as a 'timetable' for each cell with genes being switched on and off as appropriate depending on how it is hormonally controlled, stage of cell cycle and even how many cycles have occurred. That pattern dictates how it gets to this point. There is a lot to be learned about developmental biology, especially the molecular biology aspects of it. But we are getting there - it is just extraordinarily complex, that is all. |
Interesting - fractal pattern , is not the entire universe basically a fractal pattern?
Here is a thought.
Perhaps I am a fractal pattern of something beyond my comprehension at this point in my development.
Like a single cell in all likelyhood is unaware of the greater whole.
Think in terms of atomic structure and upwards.
Perhaps evolution is correct and I am evolving into something I cannot as of yet comprehend.
Please don`t spindle this next statement into something it is not mean`t to be.
Perhaps when God looks at you he sees himself.
One day you may be able to look at God and see our own reflection.
quote:
We have the tools to find it out is the most confident quote we can make. The Bible gives no answers apart from those which have been concocted. The brain is extremely complex again, and it will take time to understand...
Cogito ergo sum. |
Are you aware of anything other than your own subjective consciousness?
If not - therein exists a singularity in the universe.
The scripture does give some explanation as do other spiritual writings.
Jesus believed that the universe did not breathe life into his consciousness. He believed that the universe existed as a result of his awareness as did Lao Tzu, Gautama and others.
If I am not mistaken Einstein began to lean tword this conclusion in his later years.
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Xin Yu
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Emeryville, CA, USA
Jan 1970
time: 21:28
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Urban ranger,
OK, you know communism. How about Christianity, Islam, Buddaism, Taoism, Confucious, Voodoo?
Until you don't fully understand voodoo, it is the truth of life. How about that?
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Mercator
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Sorekara no Nanimo
Jan 1970
time: 06:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Xin Yu
I saw repeated argument of: 'you don't know sh*t about the evolution theory so don't criticize it.'
Is that a valid argument? I mean, can we apply it to other topics: Have you studied the theory of communism? Do you fully understand how slavery works? You don't? Then until you do, communism is the correct system and slavery is superior than paying salaries to workers. |
No, that's not what we're saying. We're saying that if you don't know evolution theory you can't say it isn't the correct system.
There's a green book lying on my desk. Since you haven't seen the book, you can't say whether I'm right or wrong. Of course, you could guess the correct answer. But that isn't how science works, is it? Science is based on evidence. Without seeing the book you can never be 100% sure that it's green or not.
But, if I were to claim the book is completely green, you wouldn't necessarily have to see the entire book to dismiss that claim. If you could see only a tiny portion of it, and that part happened to be white, you'd have proven me wrong already. But if the part you saw was green, we'd have the same situation as earlier.
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Proteus_MST
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quote:
Originally posted by Xin Yu
Urban ranger,
OK, you know communism. How about Christianity, Islam, Buddaism, Taoism, Confucious, Voodoo?
Until you don't fully understand voodoo, it is the truth of life. How about that? |
You can critizise those religions, without knowing them,
if your have knowledge of fundamental scientific theories and
people adhering to those religions try to interfere with these scientific theories,
i.e. if they try to say
"Those scientific theories (like the Theory of Evolution) are false, because the *name of holy skript or religious leader* says so"
and woithout giving scientific valid reasons, why their books must be correct and the scientific theory false.
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Proteus_MST
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quote:
Originally posted by Xin Yu
OK. But that could be caused by misunderstanding of the religions (God's words were often misinterpreted by human, you know.) So you still have to understand the religion to make sure they interpreted it right. Then you can criticize the religion. |
Of course,
you can only criticize those people who understand their religions this way.
In the case of christian Creationists vs. Evolution you can only criticize the Biblethumpers (who are btw. a minority) who believe that every word of their Bible Translation is literal true (and try to stop the Theory of Evolution from being taught at school),
whereas there is no reason to critizise all other christians
(who think that the Bible needs interpretation and don´t try to condemn the Theory of Evolution ).
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trev
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Adelaide, Australia
Feb 2003
time: 14:58
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quote:
I second your idea of 'mathematics is not science'. However when a student graduates from the math department, he/she gets a bachelor in science (BS) degree. That is totally unacceptable! We should let them change it to Bachelor of Mathematics. Do you agree? |
You are getting into dangerous territory with ideas like this because most modern science is only a mathematical interpretation of experimental data, eg quantum science, quarks etc. If mathematics becomes non science, will all theories based on it become non science too.
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:28
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quote:
You are getting into dangerous territory with ideas like this because most modern science is only a mathematical interpretation of experimental data, eg quantum science, quarks etc. If mathematics becomes non science, will all theories based on it become non science too.
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Science is applied mathematics, theoretical mathematics is not applied mathematics, but yours is a hollow distinction.
quote:
Until you don't fully understand voodoo, it is the truth of life. How about that?
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Ignorance fallacy, one would suppose a subjective sense of Schrodingers cat would apply, but again since this is just a subjective thing for UR (or any given subject) it makes no sense to bring it into the discussion.
quote:
Perhaps when God looks at you he sees himself.
One day you may be able to look at God and see our own reflection.
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I think you're retreating somewhere tha only those who have faith can follow, you need to establish these notions to proceed and thus far you haven't.
quote:
Are you aware of anything other than your own subjective consciousness?
If not - therein exists a singularity in the universe.
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You do know how singularities work right? Cogito ergo sum -> solisism only works when using solely deductive reasoning, you can induce the existence of others, hence the debate between rationalism and empiricism, but that one might choose empiricism does not render cogito ergo sum false.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Xin Yu
OK. But that could be caused by misunderstanding of the religions (God's words were often misinterpreted by human, you know.) So you still have to understand the religion to make sure they interpreted it right. Then you can criticize the religion. |
How do you know that gods words are misinterpreted ? You can't be sure that any of the existing scriptures in the worlds different religions really are the expression of a gods words. You only know that some people may have written some books and claims that they are the words of god. Since there are so many different versions, how do you know wich one is the true one ? Is it that one with most followers ? the one with the biggest organisation ? or are it really that one told by a medicine man in an obscure corner of the Amazon jungle ?
Religious people has often told me that if you pray and give yourself in, then the truth will come to you and you will know who god is, but that goes for all kind of religions, so there are no help in that to decide wich religion is representing the true god. For example that sect in japan who let poison gases out in the subways, they had given themselves in, prayed a lot and were certain that it was god that told them to do it - of course through the interpretations of the gods chosen this case : Shoko Asahara). How do I really know that "the chosen one" really speech on behalf of the true god when prayers etc. tell me he is the right one bot others think that they have same experience with other who are speaking the word of god ?
You may claim that Asahara was a false prophet, but how do I know for certain ? Just like the early christians he may just be misinterpreted by the current regime and are really a true prophet. Some may claim that there are a big difference in credability, but why ? How do we know what kind of people the authors of the new testament are ? Actually we don't know. 2000 years of strict control with evidence about them is more than enough to get rid of any kind of compromising proofs.
In my opinion, religion was in the early history of humankind a tool to explain what happened when the nearby tree was split in two by a lightning; later it became a common point for a group or society, just as specific tags are for todays urban gangs. This goes on for a long period until we get to more modern ages. No, not the last ten years - the last 2000 years. In the early period of this, people (ceartainly not all !!!) has concluded through different observations that the old explanatory background for religion isn't valid for treesplitting, but still are for the reason of bare existence. Further, there could be people dissatisfied with the current situation, and what would be more natural for them than to invent a religious story that expressed their belief in how society should be organized. They would certainly been full aware of the powers if they claimed that it was the words of a god, so it's absolutely reasonable that they build a scheme to promote their social beliefs upon this.
The bottom line is that despite many claims, nobody really knows what is the real words of god; noone knows which god is the real; and noone knows if god really exist.
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by Xin Yu
OK, you know communism. How about Christianity, Islam, Buddaism, Taoism, Confucious, Voodoo? |
How about yes, no, some, yes, yes, no? 
quote:
Originally posted by Xin Yu
Until you don't fully understand voodoo, it is the truth of life. How about that? |
How about no?
As I pointed out before, you either accept all unsupported assertions as true until proven otherwise, or reject them until you see evidence.
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29-01-2005 16:29
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