28-01-2005 01:06									#1
	Best settings and oppponents for challenge in SMACX? Got spare money?

Here's my choice. I'd like to hear others.

Settings
1. High cloud cover (this really helps the AI with its poor terraforming ability).
2. Normal or high water cover (helps Pirates)
3. Normal or high native life (adds challenge)
4. Spoils of War --On (helps aggressive AI)

Opponents
1. The Aliens --Very powerful and designed to played by the AI. An extra challenge because you cannot just take over their bases --really slows your momentum.
2. Pirates --Very strong and wily played by AI. Makes you think twice before going to sea, which is otherwise a sage place to get nutrients and energy. Also, they tend to side with the Aliens against the human player, so Pirates plus Aliens are one nasty package to overcome!
3. Hive --For some reason, the AI tends to do this faction better than any other.
4. Miriam or Santiago --Either way, they are tough fighters.
5. Drones --Weak at first, then watch out. The AI does fairly well with them.

For my own faction, I chose from the weakest in the SMACX world --Peacekeepers, Cult or Morgan.

There are other factions that are great when a human plays them but weak as AI --this includes the research factions (U of P, Consciousness and Morgan). I won't use them as opponents as they are too easy.

	28-01-2005 01:47									#2
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peacekeepers aren't weak! I use them all the time.

I disagree about miriam and santiago. Santiaog can be strong in the early game, but peters out. Same with the believers.

I agree with your other choices. AI is very good with the hive and drones. Pirates can be threatening, but their cities are easily conquered. Their needlejets are their main threat. But they can never follow up with land troops. So it's an annoyance at best.

	28-01-2005 02:06									#3
	Re: Best settings and oppponents for challenge in SMACX? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DilithiumDad Here's my choice. I'd like to hear others. Settings 1. High cloud cover (this really helps the AI with its poor terraforming ability). 2. Normal or high water cover (helps Pirates) 3. Normal or high native life (adds challenge) 4. Spoils of War --On (helps aggressive AI) Opponents 1. The Aliens --Very powerful and designed to played by the AI. An extra challenge because you cannot just take over their bases --really slows your momentum. 3. Hive --For some reason, the AI tends to do this faction better than any other. For my own faction, I chose from the weakest in the SMACX world --Peacekeepers, Cult or Morgan.

I'd also add lots of land to the map settings - the more AI's coming at you (from various directions) at once, the more exhilerating the experience of trying to fend them off!

I almost exclusively play with the Aliens as part of the AI's. I've recently been experimenting with the Aliens, and giving them the free nerve gas ability with the discovery of HEC.

Hive is also always an AI mainstay - GREAT AI Faction!

Otherwise, for the most part, the other AI's just aren't nearly as competitive IMO.

As far as the Faction I play: I typically choose Gaians or PK's.


Finally, this is one of the reasons I generate my SP Challenges: I am always tinkering with ways to make the AI's play more competively, and the best of these scenarios (IMO) I then share with everyone else.


D

	28-01-2005 03:17									#4
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I also strongly advocate making a flat world, like High Erosion, 30% water. The erosion actually makes more sea than the %age suggests.

One of the most important things in AI terraforming decision making is altitude, if it's low altitude solars look no good so it plants forest instead. It actually barely cares about wetness (that arid tile would be a great place for a farm/mine! *sigh*), you can crank up the rainfall to improve early growth, or leave it low for nice harsh settings. So make a flat map and the AI will plant forest!

Especially good if you give the AI (or everyone) a free formers unit, this is nearly essential if you go for "harsh world" settings otherwise Miriam will badly embarass herself.

	28-01-2005 03:52									#5
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Interesting point about high erosion setting! I will have to try that with dense cloud setting.

Peacekeepers are very strong in SMAC, and OK in SMACX. Not so overpowered as to make things easy. I find the U of P with their free Network Nodes to be overpowered in SMACX.

	28-01-2005 07:31									#6
	Re: Best settings and oppponents for challenge in SMACX? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by DilithiumDad For my own faction, I chose from the weakest in the SMACX world --Peacekeepers, Cult or Morgan.

I play SMAC, so I can't speak to the Cult. Morgan and Peacekeepers are not weak for the player. Morgan is played poorly by the AI, although, there have been times when he's done pretty well, that is the exception not the rule.
AI plays LAL quite well usually.
AS a player LAL is great since you're almost guaranteed HGP. Combined with the 1 talent, ICS is a dream.

The AI tends to play Sparta poorly; but I have trouble with Sparta, too.

	28-01-2005 15:02									#7
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Spartan efficiency depends on the size of the map. I've seen them more then once overrun the Hive (both as AI's) on my smal map of Chiron.

	29-01-2005 05:25									#8
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Spartans would do good with +1 or +2 research. Since they have things slowly made, they might as well be even stronger, right?

	29-01-2005 05:44									#9
	Fun to try Support Apolyton

Here's an eye-opening exercise to try. Play as usual until your might bar is #1 and at least twice as high as your nearest competitor. Now, instead of romping ediously to victory, activate the scenario editor. It will warn you that using the Scenario Editor in a game is cheating but that's OK --you are cheating to make it harder! Now, switch views to the WEAKEST faction and take them over. Now the challenge is to take the weakest faction and win! It's doable!

What I found in SMAC was that the weakest faction was almost always Miriam or Santiago. And they had researched weapons up to Impact but never researched Centauri Ecology!

So taking over the weakest faction is a bit like starting over. Another ploy is to gift Centauri Ecology to the weak factions.

	29-01-2005 11:26									#10
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Yeah the good old switching sides challenge is great fun. Typically you can get atleast 3 switches in, one of my very first SS challenges I started as santiago, built a nice empire, moved to morgan who was pissing away his life in the Monsoon Jungle (Morgan AI can screw up anything ), quickly ICS'd Morgan through the jungle to #1, moved onto Miriam (or was it Dawn?), pacted with Morgan and soon got her/it to #1 through military might mostly, some shred trading acquiring the two MMI SP's. You can pretty much keep switching sides until transcendence but I usually lose interest before that.

It's pretty cool looking at the power graphs, you can pretty easily tell when you take over a faction then when the AI takes it back. In particular the graph really jumps when you take over, get heaps of cash from loans, rush crawlers and treefarms everywhere and get the factions economy booming.

	29-01-2005 20:02									#11
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Actually the greatest challenge is facing the mega-faction monster you created. Your former faction continues to dominate under AI control.

What makes the whole thing possible is that the AI factions have pity on you when you are last in the power spectrum (especially Lal, Didi, Domai and Roze). This is another refreshing aspect of the switching sides scenario --finding the AI to be friendly and generous for once!

	29-01-2005 22:10									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DilithiumDad Actually the greatest challenge is facing the mega-faction monster you created. Your former faction continues to dominate under AI control. What makes the whole thing possible is that the AI factions have pity on you when you are last in the power spectrum (especially Lal, Didi, Domai and Roze). This is another refreshing aspect of the switching sides scenario --finding the AI to be friendly and generous for once!

All true-- It is a fun challenge to switch sides-- I would simply switch as soon as each faction became number one OR at some predetermined year.

It would be funny though to take over a "weakest " faction and then get pleasantly suprised that they have 1500 energy credits and 6 unused colony pods. You look so weak that the AI trip over each other to give you tech and the growth can be explosive

	30-01-2005 00:16									#13
	Re: Fun to try Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by DilithiumDad Here's an eye-opening exercise to try. Play as usual until your might bar is #1 and at least twice as high as your nearest competitor. Now, instead of romping ediously to victory, activate the scenario editor. It will warn you that using the Scenario Editor in a game is cheating but that's OK --you are cheating to make it harder! Now, switch views to the WEAKEST faction and take them over. Now the challenge is to take the weakest faction and win! It's doable! What I found in SMAC was that the weakest faction was almost always Miriam or Santiago. And they had researched weapons up to Impact but never researched Centauri Ecology! So taking over the weakest faction is a bit like starting over. Another ploy is to gift Centauri Ecology to the weak factions.

yeah I always felt terraformers should never require a tech. These should be free to everyone at the start.

	30-01-2005 00:18									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by DilithiumDad Actually the greatest challenge is facing the mega-faction monster you created. Your former faction continues to dominate under AI control. What makes the whole thing possible is that the AI factions have pity on you when you are last in the power spectrum (especially Lal, Didi, Domai and Roze). This is another refreshing aspect of the switching sides scenario --finding the AI to be friendly and generous for once!

wow, I'm going to have to try this now. I didn't think they could be generous. I'm used to games like civ3- where if you are weak- the ai is belligerant and will attack you.

	30-01-2005 03:16									#15
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It might be something to do with buying votes, like the UN on earth any crummy little country gets one whole vote, just like a superpower. Conquering the faction destroys their vote, befriending them gets you two votes for your cause. Or prehaps the AI just don't think about it much =)

I find the monster AI's aren't a huge threat, even if you can't befriend them they'll only be able to mount an invasion on you if they're your neighbour, but you can almost guarantee they'll assimilate their neighbours in short order. So an even more challenging challenge can be to prevent any eliminations, whenever a faction looks like they might be in danger of becoming extinct, switch to them and (try to) keep them in the game.

	30-01-2005 13:13									#16
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I had an interesting game. I had planned on switching sides, but I had such a bad start, I played through with my original faction. I did not take the lead until after the mid point in the game.

I was the Morganites, one of the factions I struggle with the most. I lost 2 of my first 2 cities (other than my capitol). One I lost to mindworms. And one I lost to another faction. Not in a war mind you. I'm not sure how I lost it. I did not think I could lose cities to other factions. I think it was because of rioting. does anyone know? sometimes I get rules confused with civ3 (where you can easily lose cities to the AI). In any case, my first 2 cities were gone, yet I managed to build up and get some crawlers for minerals going and eventually took the lead.

though interestingly I never did attain governor the entire game. That's a first for me. I did one vote in 2497 just to see if I could get it. I was still less than 100 votes away from getting governor. The peacekeepers brought up unite for diplomatic victory twice, but they did not get the majority.

And I stayed out of major combat in this game. I did get in wars when I refused demands (but these were distant factions on other continents). But for the most part I just gave them what they wanted. I had no military to take anyone on. But I should note this is the first game I did the punishment sphere trick. And I used clean reactors. Because I ran democracry, free market, wealth the entire game. Never changed.

Peacekeepers were actually fairly nice to me. Sure they demanded stuff, but they gave me free units to fight a war even though I wasn't pacted with them.

I also used arid planet with flat terrain. That made it more interesting as well.

	30-01-2005 22:35									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I lost 2 of my first 2 cities (other than my capitol). One I lost to mindworms. And one I lost to another faction. Not in a war mind you. I'm not sure how I lost it. I did not think I could lose cities to other factions. I think it was because of rioting. does anyone know?

If a base stays in drone riots for more than one turn, its citizens may "defect" to another faction. That's probably what happened.

	31-01-2005 00:25									#18
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usually to the drones if theyre in the game

	31-01-2005 01:07									#19
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no drones in this game. I find they are too dominant over the other factions. They still offer no challenge to me mind you- because their units are usually fairly old and not upgraded. I just wanted a game where all the factions were of decent size.

Although the peacekeepers ended up taking over most of the world anyways. So much for peaceful factions. I never seem to have games where all 7 factions make it to the end.

	31-01-2005 03:59									#20
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2497? Are you serious? That's a lot of turns! My SMAC games last to between 2220 and 2240. SMACX is considerably longer --2250 to 2280. The record for me is on Ultimate Builder's Challenge where the object is to rack up maximum score --I gave up in boredom at 2300. I could have trascended and won decades earlier but I was pumping the score --I was on Transcendent Thought 44 or so. And that scenario had tech stagnation, arid planet and souped up AI.

	31-01-2005 04:24									#21
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I could have transcended around 2475 actually. I figured I'd run up the score a little

As I said, I spent many turns with one city after my other 2 were taken away. And I didn't mention before that city was building a SP (virtual world). I spent many turns just hitting enter. . That's how the first 100 years flew by. Virtual world was the only early SP I got. And I only got a couple middle SP's. (I failed to get Hunter Seeker which I usually try to get).

yeah I made a choice. Do I finish building this SP or do I build settlers. I chose to finish building the Virtual world. I wanted to deny it to the University (they were eventually conquered by the peacekeepers).

	04-02-2005 04:39									#22
	Re: Fun to try Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DilithiumDad Here's an eye-opening exercise to try. Play as usual until your might bar is #1 and at least twice as high as your nearest competitor. Now, instead of romping ediously to victory, activate the scenario editor. It will warn you that using the Scenario Editor in a game is cheating but that's OK --you are cheating to make it harder! Now, switch views to the WEAKEST faction and take them over. Now the challenge is to take the weakest faction and win! It's doable!

I tried this - switching every 50 years, starting off as Zakharov. When I came to switch, the weakest faction was Miriam.
Little did I know how weak. She was one turn away from obliteration...

No, really. Only New Jerusalem left, population two, empty, with a Morganic unit just about to roll into it and destroy her. I had to plead for my life
Luckily it worked; went on to push Miriam to #1 in the powergraph before switching to Yang, who had four bases and had tied up every single mineral supporting military units. What IS it with the AI???
Eventually won through diplomatic victory. It's a wonderful way to play, but it's such a wrench giving up all those secret projects :/

	05-02-2005 17:04									#23
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Whenever I'm feeling smug, I always have the Pirates and a world with a tendency to have more archipelagoes.


Even with the A.I. playing the Pirates can be excruciatingly annoying, sat outside coastal bases, pop pop popping away at lovely lush forests, or next to coastal mines or boreholes, or just nibbling at infrastructure like coastal highways, or sensors, or formers.


And they're such untrustworthy b@ast@rds.


If I didn't have a skinhead cut, they'd routinely have me pulling my hair out.

	05-02-2005 19:59									#24
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I agree that the Pirates are very effective AI. Part of this is because you have limited visibility at sea. The pirate ships seem to "come out of nowhere" because they know exactly where you are and you have no idea where they are! Somehow this works much more powerfully at sea than on land, although Miriam is expert at hiding in fungus (despite her -1 Planet rating!).