28-01-2005 10:20									#1
	C3CDG: Resource Distribution Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Okay, here goes:

Iron:

• One per civ, nearby
  
• One per civ, somewhere vaguely close to each civ
  
• One per civ, but mixed up a bit.
  
• < 1 per civ (and one of the above options)
  
• > 1 per civ (")
  

Horses:

• One per civ
  
• >1 per civ
  
• <1 per civ
  and nearby, somewhere nearby, or mixed up.
  

Saltpetre/coal/rubber/oil: 6/5/4/3 for each. I'll leave the last two up to mapmaker's discretion, but please follow the pattern we make in this thread for the other resources, sort of at least.

Luxuries:

• One near each civ in amount of (2) (3) (4), and:
  
  
• Two in the middle
  
• Two seperated but between 3 civs or so each
  
• Two dispersed - ie 3 of each, and 1 of one or the other in every camp
  

Also mention what you want to do with SoZ being present, with ivory - give it to a randomly lucky civ, make it one of the dispersed resources if we do that, make it one of the middle resources if we do that, etc.?

Snoopy369:
Paddy:
Beta:
Aqualung:
Conqueror:
Scaeva(?):

	28-01-2005 18:49									#2
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This one I have to think about. My first reaction is to go with standard C3C distribution, and you live with what you get. I find part of the fun and strategy of C3C is waiting to see where the iron is, and then how you claim it.

Look at the interesting tactical adjustments that have had to be made by CoD and Python in the PTWDG2 when the continet's iron supply was sabotaged by monkeys - er - I mean - the supply got exhausted early.

I appreciate that there is a random luck element involved in resource and luxury placement, but to me, it is an integral part of the game. The more we try to make civ3 look like chess (ie the same starting position), it loses a little bit more of what makes it civ in the first place.

	28-01-2005 20:28									#3
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I agree with Beta here, though I don't have a vote.

From the other side of the aisle, it's been pretty interesting having to deal with our (Python's) sudden lack of iron just as things got underway.

	28-01-2005 23:05									#4
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Random distribution gives one more to think about when choosing a civ (if we get to choose ?) - in random C3C distribution you might not get the iron for the immortals or horses for the war chariots...

	28-01-2005 23:10									#5
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Random

	28-01-2005 23:15									#6
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Just by the way, it's possible to make the starting locations fair without handing Luxuries and Strategic resources on a silver platter. I personally think it's more fun that way. I can make either type of map.

	29-01-2005 03:56									#7
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2-3 luxs per civ, fair distribution of essential resources (ie similar distance from every civ, even if there is <1 resource per civ

	29-01-2005 05:00									#8
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Random.....as long as the Persians get Iron

Leave it to Dom.

	29-01-2005 06:06									#9
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So long as it is not like AU 501, or tarzan, or...

	29-01-2005 06:15									#10
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We need to decide if we want as many resources as C3C distro allows (1 iron/civ, 1 horse/civ, etc.), as many luxes, etc. It's not going to be a random map - Dom can put them wherever, but not truly randomly. I just wanted this poll to be guidance. One iron per civ is the normal C3C distro, but just not next to each civ necessarily. If you want the normal random-like distro, that means Dom MUST put some irons near each other (so one civ is nearly guaranteed to get 2 and probably 1-2 civs get none). Is that what the chamber desires?

Anywho, for all it's worth my vote is to keep iron and horses 1/civ and near the civs, but not too near - so it's possible to take it away militarily w/o total conquest, but there's one in range somewhere... sort of like sabre's non-vote... and specifically with luxes, ivory at least 3 civs get it (regardless of SoZ).

	29-01-2005 07:15									#11
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Can't we jsut alter the game so that the amount of resources is brought back up to PTW levels?

	29-01-2005 07:42									#12
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We can, of course. We can do anything. But, don't forget Dominae is CREATING the map, not randomizing it. Hence unless a random map is started with, the resources won't be random, they'll be placed. I preferred to use the language in the poll question because it's clearer what we're voting on - "c3c levels" and "ptw levels" are not known by all what they mean.

For reference:
c3c levels: 1 per civ for iron/horses, less for others, luxes grouped together and roughly 2-3 of each for our current size of map/civs
ptw levels: 1.5 per civ for iron/horses less for others, luxes more randomized and about 4 of each for current settings

	29-01-2005 10:09									#13
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 We can, of course. We can do anything. But, don't forget Dominae is CREATING the map, not randomizing it.

I was going to start with a random map and make as few tweaks as necessary to balance the starting locations for each team (taking into account civ selection, of course). Of course, I'll also follow whatever requirements are voted in by these threads.

	29-01-2005 10:15									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Krill So long as it is not like AU 501, or tarzan, or...

AU501 was not designed as an MP map, but a SP one with specific objectives in mind, so balancing the starting locations was not a requirement. My memory is foggy regarding the map for Tarzan PBEM, but I thought I had more or less balanced all the starting locations; it was harder to do because of the weird terrain mod, so I take full responsibility if I screwed up on that one.

I have never intentionally made an MP map to screw one or more specific players. Nor have I, for that matter, made a SP map just to be "evil" and take away players' enjoyment of the game. Numerous times I've seen players/teams make lemonade out of lemons in SP/MP games with crafted/random maps, and blaming the map maker was never a part of their solutions.

	29-01-2005 21:42									#15
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It is just not because we are playing the Babs - where the UU does not need iron, and where we have ceaper temples to keep the masses happy - but I am still against tweaking the resources too much. And for the record - I like the c3c levels. More strategy required.

This is after all - a c3c demo game.

	29-01-2005 23:53									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I was going to start with a random map and make as few tweaks as necessary to balance the starting locations for each team (taking into account civ selection, of course). Of course, I'll also follow whatever requirements are voted in by these threads.

Ahh, ok. That makes this easier

So I take it the votes are to leave the resources completely alone? Or do we want to ensure each player has access to iron OR horses, or something like that? I guess i've just seen too many people screwed over by having no resources available at all ...

	31-01-2005 03:13									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Beta I am still against tweaking the resources too much. And for the record - I like the c3c levels. More strategy required. This is after all - a c3c demo game.

I agree with Beta on this.

If tweaking has to be done, then maybe just move resource a bit closer to starting pos, if all resources are extremely far from starting positions.

SoZ i dont like, rather would play without it. Especially if you decide to enable SGL Have played 3 ! PBEM games where Ivory owner built the SoZ with SGL... its a real game killer combo.

If SoZ has to be enabled, then make Ivory somehow available to all. (not needed to sit on it, but close by)