 |
| |
|
|
Kontiki
|
|
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
|
|
According to commies (well, at least kid), all work is of equal value, and pricing is just a problem of supply. So a surgeon working on you for an hour in a life-saving procedure has done something of equal value as a person assembling washing machines for an hour. It's only because there aren't enough surgeons (or are there too many washing machine assemblers?) that your life is more valuable than a washing machine, apparently.
Also, value is never relative, there's always a fixed social value. A loaf of bread is equally valuable to a starving person than it is to me right after I've stuffed myself at a buffet table.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kontiki
|
|
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Well, Kid is wrong. There is an obvious difference in an hour of labor requiring a long education vs. an hour of basic manual labor.
As for the loaf, there the value is created by the individual, not the other way around. someone who is starving will value a loaf of bread more than a person who is stuffed. The actual value of the loaf has not changed thought- its not like if a starving man walked into a supermarket he would all of a sudden be charged more than someone who is not hungry. |
While I agree with you on the face of it, that's not the point. It has nothing to do with education or skills involved - it's that working on saving your life is more valuable than working on a washing machine. It doesn't matter if I could walk into any corner store and find someone that can perform life-saving surgery, the act of saving my life is always more valuable to me than a washing machine. Therefore, an hour of labor saving my life is always worth vastly more to me than an hour assembling a washing machine, even if you needed an MIT doctorate to assemble that washing machine.
As for the loaf, kid's whole point is that price doesn't equal value. So while you're right that the price wouldn't change for either person, the value would. If the value changes, then there isn't an inherent value to that loaf of bread.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kontiki
|
|
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
|
|
Because kid is not using a constant definition of value. The only way value is created, in the sense that we normally think of it, if prices go down is if the price really did equal the value at some point. Of course, using that definition of value is different again because what's really happening is that you are paying less than the "value", you're not creating more "value".
Which is just a complicated way of saying that value is not fixed.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kontiki
|
|
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I'm stayin' outta this. |
That's probably a good idea. Although I'd be happy to discuss why labor shouldn't be compensated for the full value of production if capital is required for that production to happen in the first place.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
GePap
|
 |
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:28
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kontiki
While I agree with you on the face of it, that's not the point. It has nothing to do with education or skills involved - it's that working on saving your life is more valuable than working on a washing machine. It doesn't matter if I could walk into any corner store and find someone that can perform life-saving surgery, the act of saving my life is always more valuable to me than a washing machine. Therefore, an hour of labor saving my life is always worth vastly more to me than an hour assembling a washing machine, even if you needed an MIT doctorate to assemble that washing machine. |
Your opinion as a person is irrelevant to the social value given, which was your statement. Society will value an hours labor of a surgeon more than an hour labor from a ditch digger, regardless of whether the surgery is lifesaving or not.
quote:
As for the loaf, kid's whole point is that price doesn't equal value. So while you're right that the price wouldn't change for either person, the value would. If the value changes, then there isn't an inherent value to that loaf of bread. |
I agree there is no inherent value to a loaf, but not that value changes so drastically all based on personal isues.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kontiki
|
|
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Your opinion as a person is irrelevant to the social value given, which was your statement. Society will value an hours labor of a surgeon more than an hour labor from a ditch digger, regardless of whether the surgery is lifesaving or not. |
Fine, remove my opinion from the picture. I only threw it in there to differential myself from a sucidal person that wouldn't necessarily value their life highly. It still doesn't change the fact that there is a difference in the value of hour's labor based on what it produces, and not necessarily tied to the educational requirements to perform said hour of labor.
quote:
I agree there is no inherent value to a loaf, but not that value changes so drastically all based on personal isues. |
The value to an individual or a group certainly does, but if you're summing everything up to a societal level, then you're right, there won't (or shouldn't) be such dramatic swings, unless the whole society is in some sort of crisis.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:28.
Apolyton Time is 00:28. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
28-01-2005 21:25
|