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Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
King
United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:26
  Old Post 04-02-2005 04:49 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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Enron and Market Manipulation ... Support Apolyton

Everyone:

... did any of you see the CBS report tonight on the tapes authorities have that show Enron employees and plant operators deliberately diverting power from California (among other things) in order to manipulate prices and create a national energy "crisis"?

Those dirty, rotten bastards. Talk about giving capitalism a bad name.

Gatekeeper

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
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umm... That's pretty old news.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
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It is for us in California at least (who have been paying attention), and part of the reason Davis got the boot... we've been crying foul since the 90s, and we're still getting reamed by the natural gas companies.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
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Get a bigger avatar today!

Enron got theirs in the end anyway.

gjramsey is offline gjramsey
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Nov 2001
time: 23:26
  Old Post 04-02-2005 05:42
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I saw the story. They had new audio tape of the energy traders gloating over the rolling black-outs. pretty amazing.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
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Mar 2003
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  Old Post 04-02-2005 05:45 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

I pretty much figured they were drooling over the profit they were making off of us.

Commy is offline Commy
King
St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:26
  Old Post 04-02-2005 08:17
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And before you know it, Martha Stewart just might take over Enron...they'd work together nicely...

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:26
  Old Post 04-02-2005 08:20
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quote:
Those dirty, rotten bastards. Talk about giving capitalism a bad name.


Yeah, getting caught really let the side down.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
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  Old Post 04-02-2005 08:21 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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Tired of ads?

My Marketing professor was reading off a list of recent corporate scandals. It was actually quite a list. You don't realize how many there are when they come out one at at time.

Seeker is offline Seeker
Emperor
London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:26
  Old Post 04-02-2005 08:28 Visit Seeker's homepage!
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...just waiting for Fez to get here and start defending Ken and Bush's other Enron pals as Great Americans...

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 04-02-2005 08:31
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In California we've been crying foul since the very beginning of the Bush administration. The really scary part is Bush initially spoke up for Enron (since Key Lay and Enron were giving Bush millions of dollars) and its blatantly criminal actions plus Bush & his appointees refused to stop the obvious manipulations. The state of California had to sue the federal energy regulators to get any action and even then Enron kept pillaging in order to make billions. Reporters and lawyers have looked into the matter and there never was a shortage of electricity in California; instead Enron and three other companies which controlled the majority of the power plants agreed to shut down 1/3 of the generating capacity and sell play a shell game where they’d move the power out of state then back into state. Why would they do this? Because if energy came from out of state their was no limit to the price charged but if it came from within the state the price was regulated.

Basically, Enron and its pals created a false shortage to drive up prices then played a game to hide how they were illegally making billions.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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  Old Post 04-02-2005 08:33
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Got spare money?

I don't understand you Oerdin, you complain about the lack of accountability and the rampant criminality, but you seem happy with a political and economic system that allows the clowns to get away with it. These people are wrist-slapped and then inevitably get back to their robbing ways.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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Ever wondered why these guys get such lenient sentences?

I mean the Enron guys commit billions of dollars worth of fraud and wipe out the savings of thousands of employees and investors, and they'll get a few years at a holiday camp.

On the other hand if some good ol' boy robs a filling station and gets away with a total haul of a couple hundred bucks and three cartons of cigarettes, he'll get years and years in the state ass-pounding penitentiary.

See something wrong here?

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
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  Old Post 04-02-2005 08:44 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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They may start cracking down. People understand that their own ability to exploit within the law depends on everyone operating within the law. Sooner or latter, the public is going to start getting fed up.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 04-02-2005 08:51
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This is the Bush administration. "Shameless" is their middle name.

mindseye is offline mindseye
King
A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 07:04
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Gatekeeper, I just read this in the NYTimes about ten minutes ago. Got my blood boiling all over again.

quote:
Tapes Show Enron Arranged Plant Shutdown

Timothy Egan
The New York Times
February 4, 2005
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/04/n...l/04energy.html


EVERETT, Wash., Feb. 3 - In the midst of the California energy troubles in early 2001, when power plants were under a federal order to deliver a full output of electricity, the Enron Corporation arranged to take a plant off-line on the same day that California was hit by rolling blackouts, according to audiotapes of company traders released here on Thursday.

The tapes and memorandums were made public by a small public utility north of Seattle that is fighting Enron over a power contract. They also showed that Enron, as early as 1998, was creating artificial energy shortages and running up prices in Canada in advance of California's larger experiment with deregulation.

The tapes provide new details of market manipulation during the California energy crisis that produced blackouts and billions of dollars of surcharges to homes and businesses on the West Coast in 2000 and 2001.

In one January 2001 telephone tape of an Enron trader the public utility identified as Bill Williams and a Las Vegas energy official identified only as Rich, an agreement was made to shut down a power plant providing energy to California. The shutdown was set for an afternoon of peak energy demand.

"This is going to be a word-of-mouth kind of thing," Mr. Williams says on the tape. "We want you guys to get a little creative and come up with a reason to go down." After agreeing to take the plant down, the Nevada official questioned the reason. "O.K., so we're just coming down for some maintenance, like a forced outage type of thing?" Rich asks. "And that's cool?"

"Hopefully," Mr. Williams says, before both men laugh.

The next day, Jan. 17, 2001, as the plant was taken out of service, the State of California called a power emergency, and rolling blackouts hit up to a half-million consumers, according to daily logs of the western power grid.


Officials with the Snohomish County Public Utility District in Washington State, which released the tapes, said they believed Enron officials had taken similar measures with other power plants. This tape, they said, was proof of what was going on.

At the time, power plants in the greater West Coast grid were under a federal emergency order to keep their plants running.

A spokeswoman for Enron, Jennifer Lowney, would not comment on the tapes, citing a blanket policy of the energy trading company, which is operating under bankruptcy protection and facing multiple criminal and civil proceedings. "We continue to cooperate with all ongoing investigations," she said.

Conversations between energy traders and power plants were routinely recorded to give a record of transactions. The tapes were part of a large seizure of evidence by the F.B.I. The Snohomish County utility, which is in a court battle with Enron, obtained them through a legal action.

Previous tapes released by the district last summer showed Enron officials joking about how they were "stealing" more than a $1 million a day from California and fleecing "Grandma Millie" while bringing Enron record profits.

Other tapes released on Thursday showed Enron executives discussing their fear of going to jail for manipulating power markets in Canada and the United States. And memos showed that Enron practiced as early as 1998 to create artificial shortages and run up prices and extend the market manipulation to Canada.

Three former Enron traders have pleaded guilty to federal criminal charges of fraudulently manipulating the West Coast energy market. Enron's former chairman, Kenneth L. Lay, and former president, Jeffrey K. Skilling, are under federal indictment for fraud.

In cooperating with federal officials, West Coast traders have told how they devised schemes named "Death Star" and "Get Shorty" to make billions of dollars out of California's disastrous experiment with energy deregulation.

But until the tapes were released on Thursday, there had been few public details of how Enron set in motion the phony power shortages.

Company officials had long denied that they illegally shut down plants to create artificial shortages. In March 2001 - two months after the recording showed how the Nevada plant was shut down- Mr. Lay called any claims of market manipulation "conspiracy theories."

Memos uncovered by Snohomish County also show that Enron rewarded midlevel executives based on their performance in manipulating the West Coast market.

The tapes and memos were filed this week with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, as part of a broad investigation into how much money was lost by Enron market manipulation. Snohomish County is seeking to void a $122 million lawsuit by Enron over an energy contract the utility said was based on fraud.


Gentlemen, you may now remove your tinfoil hats. It really WAS a deliberate conspiracy!

I keep thinking that China is becoming more like the US and the US is becoming more like China.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 07:07 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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I TOLD YOU SO!

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 07:52 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by mindseye
It really WAS a deliberate conspiracy!


There is no such thing as a conspiracy! You are loony!

mindseye is offline mindseye
King
A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 14:38
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I posted this in another thread, but let's get another small dose of endorphins ...

Attachment: lay arrested.jpg
This has been downloaded 39 time(s).

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 16:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
I don't understand you Oerdin, you complain about the lack of accountability and the rampant criminality, but you seem happy with a political and economic system that allows the clowns to get away with it. These people are wrist-slapped and then inevitably get back to their robbing ways.


That's the thing Sava. I don't want wrist slapping I want Key Lay in jail being ass rapped by a large man who's nickname is the booty bandit.

If we can get honest people in office then the system can be reformed to work for the people. I'm not willing to toss the baby out with the bath water like you commiues.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 18:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


That's the thing Sava...


!

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
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  Old Post 05-02-2005 19:32 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by mindseye
I posted this in another thread, but let's get another small dose of endorphins ...


He looks too good there. He should look like Saddam coming out of the bunker.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 19:35 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


That's the thing Sava. I don't want wrist slapping I want Key Lay in jail being ass rapped by a large man who's nickname is the booty bandit.

If we can get honest people in office then the system can be reformed to work for the people. I'm not willing to toss the baby out with the bath water like you commiues.


That's the thing Fez. What good is putting honest people in charge of a dishonest system?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 21:05
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT


!


I think it was a fraudian slip. I honestly didn't mean to do that.

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