04-02-2005 05:24									#1
	Running Free Market Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have a confession to make

I've been playing SMAC since I was thirteenish. That's nearly seven years now (how depressing). And yet, until a couple of games ago, I had never run FM for more than a few turns :/

Why? Simply put, I'd never thought the benefits outweighed the detriments sufficiently to be worth it. Drone riots annoy me enough as it is with a normal police rating, and I like my +Planet as much as the next man. However, somewhere down the line I got fed up with a six-base AI researching faster than me and my seventeen-odd bases, and decided to give it a try.

And, a hundred and thirty years, four vendettas and two base revolts (I was distracted, okay?) later, was still running it :/

I actually like that FM is difficult to run - it makes pursuing aerial vendettas harder, for one thing. (Those two base revolts were both the result of supporting too many noodles - both times I intended to move the offending planes back to base and disband them, and immediately forgot :E) And fighting mindworms becomes a question of hiding behind your trace sentinels and praying.

I haven't run FM seriously since, but for so many years I refused to believe it was feasible :/ My apologies to all those FM junkies to whom I naysaid!

	04-02-2005 08:18									#2
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It takes some practice.

I admit I normally run green- because it's "easy".

But my last game I played the morganites, which kind of dictates I should run free market and wealth. Which I did. At first, the money isn't exactly rolling in. but eventually the money come faster than you can spend it (almost).

	04-02-2005 13:20									#3
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Free Market and Wealth? I thought beyond +2 Econ the returns began to diminish to such an extent that it wasn't worth suffering the penalties?

Last edited by Clear Skies on 04-02-2005 at 15:31

	04-02-2005 13:28									#4
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Buddy, FM + Wealth is the most common combo for most factions

Many players instate it ASAP and keep running it all the game.

Exceptions are
Hive & Gaia: Planned/Wealth
Sparta: FM + Knowledge (due to inability to instate Wealth)
Cult: Planned or Green/Knowledge (due to inability to instate Wealth)

Try playing Morgan and compare +1 econ vs +2, +3 and +4 - big difference!

	04-02-2005 15:31									#5
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Well, colour me surprised (unless the colour of surprise is purple, because purple so isn't my colour). I've never run FM/Wealth in my life. I've been a Demo/Green/Knowledge junkie for longer than I can remember :/

	04-02-2005 16:50									#6
	Re: Running Free Market Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Clear Skies Those two base revolts were both the result of supporting too many noodles - both times I intended to move the offending planes back to base and disband them, and immediately forgot

If you make interceptors (noodles with SAM special ability), no extra pacifism drones are appearing in that base, because interceptors are there for "defense" off course.
The only detriment to this is they get the air to ground -50% penalty. But when out teching the others that doesn't matter (fusion laser Attack = 10/2 (SAM penalty) = 5 and that beats a plasma steel (3) any day, ignoring morale for this example). If they have AAA or aerospace, that is another thing, but units outside of a base are toast.
Otherwise you could build a punishment sphere in the offending base. Just make sure you have plenty of minerals for support and scrap the research upgrades, because PS brings about -50% tech.

Hope this helps in refining even more your new way of SMACX! Good luck!

	04-02-2005 22:17									#7
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Make a high mineral city your command center: Place a punishment sphere, and then rehome your jets and copters. No more problems.

greetz

	04-02-2005 22:58									#8
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I was tempted, but I like my high mineral bases :/ And clean reactors cost a little too much. And the punishment sphere quote freaks me out just a little :E

Still, I'll get over it :P It's a good idea...I'll try it next time I'm playing. I guess with all the extra FM energy I can afford a punishment sphere or two.

	05-02-2005 00:02									#9
	Re: Re: Running Free Market Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Major Guz If you make interceptors (noodles with SAM special ability), no extra pacifism drones are appearing in that base, because interceptors are there for "defense" off course. The only detriment to this is they get the air to ground -50% penalty. But when out teching the others that doesn't matter (fusion laser Attack = 10/2 (SAM penalty) = 5 and that beats a plasma steel (3) any day, ignoring morale for this example). If they have AAA or aerospace, that is another thing, but units outside of a base are toast. Otherwise you could build a punishment sphere in the offending base. Just make sure you have plenty of minerals for support and scrap the research upgrades, because PS brings about -50% tech. Hope this helps in refining even more your new way of SMACX! Good luck!

punishment sphere (1 city only) and clean reactors.

my fist time I screwed up and built the punishment sphere in an inland city. I had to transfer it to an ocean city. Because this way I can base my ships out of there.

	05-02-2005 01:13									#10
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On Economy, I never found a big difference between +2 and +3, but +3 and +4 is a big difference.

Similarly, I didn't find much difference between 0 and +1 on Economy, and between 0 and -1 was so small as to be almost non-existant.

quote: Originally posted by Clear Skies Free Market and Wealth? I thought beyond +2 Econ the returns began to diminish to such an extent that it wasn't worth suffering the penalties?

	05-02-2005 01:56									#11
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Myself, I was generally a fan of Democracy - Planned - Knowlege + Childrens Crehe for population boom!

When not booming:
Democracy - Green - Knowlege.

Exceptions:

Morgon:
Democracy - Green - Wealth

Yang:
Police State - Planned - Wealth

	05-02-2005 02:42									#12
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Since I play as the Angels, and only go offensive with probe teams and mind-controlled units, I always play Free Market, as it goes with my libertarian (and anarchist) ideals...and since it doesn't affect my military strategy...

As for values, I always do knowledge, to prevent the probe rollover problem and also to boost research. While in some instances, wealth can actually boost research more than knowledge, I find it more useful to not risk any negative morale effects, as it hurts the few garrison units I have. It might affect probe teams, but I'm not so sure about that...

And of course I do demo and cybernetic...almost cancels out the free market negatives on planet...leaving me with only -9 police, -2 support, and -1 planet...which isn't that bad when only using probe teams...

	05-02-2005 04:46									#13
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Your Morale rating has no impact on your probe teams' morale. This is why armored probe teams can make nice garrisons for Morgan or others running FM/Wealth.

I find that I almost never run Green before Hab Domes. Industry or Economy are more important than Planet or the extra Efficiency before then. Morgan running Demo/Green/Wealth is an exception, as that allows for both +2 econ and 100% labs as needed.

	08-02-2005 03:39									#14
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If you think you are going to be in a protracted war I've always found it useful to get rid of free market to avoid the drone riots, after you have built all the units of course or saved up enough money to rush build all the units you think you are going to need.

	08-02-2005 04:16									#15
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An old strategy (that I have abolished) that I used to due was demo, planned, power, eudaimonia, as it had no disadvantages. However, eudaimonia comes to late, and -1 industry isn't particularly nice. Also, an early +2 economy is just too good, especially when you have a smaller empire and need the boost to stay in the tech lead...but then again, that's what probe teams are for...

	08-02-2005 19:38									#16
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Well, since I've started to play MP I've seen a lot of FM usage...which I don't tend to. I am, as Clear Skies stated before, a Demo/Green/Knowledge "junkie"...I'm just in love with Efficiency! I really don't know why, but "Paradigmatic Economy" seems so appealing ...
I'll have to give FM a try, altough I hate drones ..the little red bastards...and on top of that, I usually don't nerve staple, mostly because of my gaian origins, altough I now play with Pirates..

	09-02-2005 14:59									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Lord_Icewind Well, since I've started to play MP I've seen a lot of FM usage...which I don't tend to. I am, as Clear Skies stated before, a Demo/Green/Knowledge "junkie"...I'm just in love with Efficiency! I really don't know why, but "Paradigmatic Economy" seems so appealing ... I'll have to give FM a try, altough I hate drones ..the little red bastards...and on top of that, I usually don't nerve staple, mostly because of my gaian origins, altough I now play with Pirates..

I've played many games of SMAC and have never nerve-stapled. I've used FM quite a bit for the past few years (like you I didn't like it at first but later couldn't argue with it's success, especially in the early game) and I've never had that much trouble with drones under any circumstances. The most trouble is in the early game when you have to check your bases regularly to see which ones are about to grow and riot unless you make someone a doctor, but that only lasts until I get a happiness SP or Rec Commons installed in most bases.

	09-02-2005 20:53									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Lord_Icewind I hate drones ..the little red bastards...

Well if you fed us something better than soylent green, we might not get so pissed.

Try turning up the psych to 30% means you can afford us Jumbo XenoJacks and Salisbury Steaks. That makes drones happy.

I hear what you are thinking....30% of my income so you lazy bums can eat Salisbury Steak? Yes. Remember you double your income for that 30% so you end up with a 70% surplus and drone control

	09-02-2005 21:10									#19
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quote: so you end up with a 70% surplus and drone control

Yeah - it's golden age!

	10-02-2005 03:17									#20
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Actually, I've never had psych with more than a 10%..

	10-02-2005 06:41									#21
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I find golden age by high psych setting quite useful

My extreme psych are like 60% - but I try to avoid it.

	10-02-2005 14:46									#22
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Be careful about the luxury limit with your psych settings though. If you are producing any more than 2 psych per population at your base the excess is wasted. This is easy to do once you have a few psych boosting facilities. In general I prefer to use specialists to generate psych, as they can be tailored base to base. When you use the psych allocation it uses up x% of your energy in every base, including your Super Science Base which is in perpetual Golden Age even with the 10% psych.

	10-02-2005 20:05									#23
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quote: Originally posted by livid imp Well if you fed us something better than soylent green, we might not get so pissed. Try turning up the psych to 30% means you can afford us Jumbo XenoJacks and Salisbury Steaks. That makes drones happy. I hear what you are thinking....30% of my income so you lazy bums can eat Salisbury Steak? Yes. Remember you double your income for that 30% so you end up with a 70% surplus and drone control

Yeah 0% Psych results in Mad Drone Disease.


Keep your Drones free-range and organic, or else you'll see more of our smilin' red faces!



GFC

	10-02-2005 20:53									#24
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Frankly, I think the penalties with FM are too severe. You basically cannot have an airforce under FM (unless you build punishment spheres or crank up the psych slider way up). How can you wage war without an airforce?

	10-02-2005 21:09									#25
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Frankly, I think the penalties with FM are too severe. You basically cannot have an airforce under FM (unless you build punishment spheres or crank up the psych slider way up). How can you wage war without an airforce?

Try playing as Sparta. In single player, it's great. I'm going to find out how well it works in MP.

	10-02-2005 21:13									#26
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quote: unless you build punishment spheres

And THIS is the solution most players use - you actually must build only 1 sphere and rehome all your potentially pacifism-inciting units to it..

	11-02-2005 13:56									#27
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Frankly, I think the penalties with FM are too severe. You basically cannot have an airforce under FM (unless you build punishment spheres or crank up the psych slider way up). How can you wage war without an airforce?

naw, I used to think that. But FM is too powerful. At least for the human. For the ai, yeah the penalties could be less.

	11-02-2005 16:51									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident naw, I used to think that. But FM is too powerful. At least for the human. For the ai, yeah the penalties could be less.

I beat the snot out of Santiago the other night, and she was running FM the entire time. It was tough but she was dogged about it.

	12-02-2005 00:53									#29
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Really? I often get into a vendetta with the AI purely to force them to stop running Free Market. She actually kept running it all the way through? Whoa. Most of the AI factions just flip straight to Fundy-Power or some similarly army-boosting, energy-choking combo.

	12-02-2005 02:26									#30
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin And THIS is the solution most players use - you actually must build only 1 sphere and rehome all your potentially pacifism-inciting units to it..

and you don't even need a sphere-- Build a base that crawls only minerals and builds only morale enhancers and military. Make its only citizen a specialist-- NO problem