05-02-2005 20:33									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo And you call yourself a libertarian. How disgraceful. I thought you'd stand up for the freedom of the Iraqi people brought along by Rumsfeld and more importantly the Bush adminstration as a whole. Shame on you!

I was of the impression that the Libertarian Party was opposed to foreign interventions ...

	05-02-2005 21:13									#32
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As a general rule Libertarians are opposed to just about everything; foreign or other wise.

	05-02-2005 22:31									#33
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Rummy wasn't resigning because he felt he should resign. He was just offering to fall on his sword.

if he didnt feel he should resign then he just offered something that was not his in the first place: it's the president's will that keeps secretateries in their seats.

so rumsfeld claiming that he was "willing to resign" is just a show off. if bush wanted him gone he had no need to "ask" him to resign.....

	06-02-2005 01:42									#34
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Mark, its an anglo thing, people offer their resignation to show loyalty

	06-02-2005 03:18									#35
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it's not anglo thing, it's a politicians' thing (our guys over here do it too, plus we've discovered politics you know )

and that's not showing loyalty, that's covering your behind ("i offered my resignation but the big guy said all was ok")

	06-02-2005 04:13									#36
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG it's the president's will that keeps secretateries in their seats.

Is this something about Clinton??

	06-02-2005 06:00									#37
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG it's not anglo thing, it's a politicians' thing (our guys over here do it too, plus we've discovered politics you know ) and that's not showing loyalty, that's covering your behind ("i offered my resignation but the big guy said all was ok")

No, it's covering your boss's behind. Rummy wasn't saying, I'm guilty, I should go. He was saying, I'll be the fall guy for this. It's a loyalty thing.

	06-02-2005 06:03									#38
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And I think it is out of a sense of duty as well. I'm the one who was supposed to be in charge, so I'm guilty.

	06-02-2005 06:06									#39
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Except Dear Leader doesn't think he did anything wrong. He's made that clear many, many times. If he fired Rummy, he would be publicly saying that his administration ****ed up, and thus he did.

	06-02-2005 06:06									#40
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I didn't say Bush thought he was guilty.

	06-02-2005 06:08									#41
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Of course he doesn't think that. Shrub's infallible, so his administration is as well.

	06-02-2005 09:29									#42
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Shrub works for God don't you know.....

	06-02-2005 09:30									#43
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quote: it's not anglo thing, it's a politicians' thing (our guys over here do it too, plus we've discovered politics you know

Considering you invented it and it's your word, that is a bit of an understatement.

	06-02-2005 10:01									#44
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offering ones resignation without actually resigning is an Anglo thing - its a British Westminster tradition.

There were once conventions about when a resignation should be offered, for both ministers and officials. For example misleading the Minister was automatic for a resignation offer at officials level because if the Minister misled the parliament the Minister had to resign.

	06-02-2005 14:02									#45
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quote: I'd say his integrity is high. Instead of ducking the issue and making Rumsfeld the fall guy Bush took the brunt. In an election year too. Audacity or balls? I call balls.

It took an ability to look at oneself in the mirror no matter how ugly the picture. How do you put soldiers in cages for following orders and not hold the upper brass accountable as well - ALL the people responsible, not just a few disposables who might face court martial or at the least an end to their career if they don't do as told. They are the least culpable in this...

Clayton Hartwig all over again under a second Bush, and what truly amazes me is how the military is so
pro-Repub when its so obvious they get thrown to the wolves to save GOP a-holes from their responsibility.

	06-02-2005 15:22									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Except Dear Leader doesn't think he did anything wrong. He's made that clear many, many times. If he fired Rummy, he would be publicly saying that his administration ****ed up, and thus he did.

which makes offering a resignation (and later announcing that you did, twice) simply a big act of hypocrisy from rumsfeld....

	06-02-2005 21:29									#47
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Mark, I think you are just not getting the tradition of resignation offerings. You do it even when you know it'll be turned down for whatever reason.