04-02-2005 05:48									#1
	Bush denied Rumsfeld's resignation twice Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS...sign/index.html

quote: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld says he twice offered President Bush his resignation during the height of the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal, but the president refused to accept it. In an interview to be aired Thursday night on CNN's "Larry King Live," Rumsfeld says: "I submitted my resignation to President Bush twice during that period and told him that ... I felt that he ought to make the decision as to whether or not I stayed on. And he made that decision and said he did want me to stay on."

Well, this is certainly interesting. I think I dislike Rumsfeld less and dislike Bush more now.

	04-02-2005 06:10									#2
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Bush's integrity has room to grow.

	04-02-2005 06:18									#3
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I'd say his integrity is high. Instead of ducking the issue and making Rumsfeld the fall guy Bush took the brunt. In an election year too.

Audacity or balls? I call balls.

	04-02-2005 06:26									#4
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I think it was quite good we kept Rumsfeld, because he's a good man who stands up against the liberal press and is a very fine defense minister, despite what the left wing says.

	04-02-2005 06:46									#5
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If the president refuses to accept ones resignation, one should commit seppuku. Only then could one remain honourable.

	04-02-2005 07:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle I'd say his integrity is high. Instead of ducking the issue and making Rumsfeld the fall guy Bush took the brunt. In an election year too.

Bush resigned? I must have missed that.^-^

But, really, ignoring an issue doesn't really count as taking the brunt.

	04-02-2005 07:12									#7
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That's a gold star next to Rumsfeld's name; and a black mark next to Shrub's.

No accountability.

	04-02-2005 07:40									#8
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quote: I think it was quite good we kept Rumsfeld, because he's a good man who stands up against the liberal press and is a very fine defense minister, despite what the left wing says.

here in america, we seem to have a different definition of 'defense' then the rest of the world. rummy isnt a defense minister, hes a warmonger.

	04-02-2005 07:43									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat If the president refuses to accept ones resignation, one should commit seppuku. Only then could one remain honourable.

Mr. Immortal using the term "seppuku"

	04-02-2005 07:53									#10
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quote: I think it was quite good we kept Rumsfeld, because he's a good man who stands up against the liberal press and is a very fine defense minister, despite what the left wing says.

What Liberal press?

You mean The Nation, which nobody reads?

	04-02-2005 08:00									#11
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle I'd say his integrity is high. Instead of ducking the issue and making Rumsfeld the fall guy Bush took the brunt. In an election year too. Bush resigned? I must have missed that.^-^ But, really, ignoring an issue doesn't really count as taking the brunt.

Ignoring an issue does not mean firing anyone connected to it. It was an extremely large blackmark that was acted on.

	04-02-2005 08:02									#12
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle I'd say his integrity is high. Instead of ducking the issue and making Rumsfeld the fall guy Bush took the brunt. In an election year too. Bush resigned? I must have missed that.^-^ But, really, ignoring an issue doesn't really count as taking the brunt.

Well, to put it bluntly, resigning and leaving the next guy to clean up the mess wouldn't really count either.

Heads rolling might often make various parties feel better about themselves but realistically it rarely does much to fix a problem.

	04-02-2005 08:02									#13
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well I guess Rumsfeld isn't as much of a jerk as I thought he was.

either that or a little birdy was telling him that there wasn't much chance of bush accepting a resignation because that would be an admission of wrong-doing.

	04-02-2005 08:04									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker well I guess Rumsfeld isn't as much of a jerk as I thought he was. either that or a little birdy was telling him that there wasn't much chance of bush accepting a resignation because that would be an admission of wrong-doing.

Um, I think that the wrong doing was self evident. We have had trials for the perps.

	04-02-2005 08:07									#15
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quote: Um, I think that the wrong doing was self evident. We have had trials for the perps.

You mean the patsys.

	04-02-2005 08:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Um, I think that the wrong doing was self evident. We have had trials for the perps. You mean the patsys.

Yes Aggie, the ones who were taking direct orders from George from their secret communication devices disguised as ear wigs.

	04-02-2005 08:42									#17
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quote: Yes Aggie, the ones who were taking direct orders from George from their secret communication devices disguised as ear wigs.

The fact that in all likelihood prisoners are still being tortured at Gitmo speaks volumes.

Nice job though, sticking up for torturers.

	04-02-2005 09:44									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Yes Aggie, the ones who were taking direct orders from George from their secret communication devices disguised as ear wigs. The fact that in all likelihood prisoners are still being tortured at Gitmo speaks volumes. Nice job though, sticking up for torturers.

Nice job reaching for substance.

	04-02-2005 13:32									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia here in america, we seem to have a different definition of 'defense' then the rest of the world. rummy isnt a defense minister, hes a warmonger.

And you call yourself a libertarian. How disgraceful. I thought you'd stand up for the freedom of the Iraqi people brought along by Rumsfeld and more importantly the Bush adminstration as a whole. Shame on you!

	04-02-2005 14:17									#20
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This doesn't change my opinion of Rummy much. A little, but not much.

	04-02-2005 15:10									#21
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I really find him despicable.

	04-02-2005 16:22									#22
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And somewhere, did a cockerel crow.....?


Oh, to touch the hem of the garment of the Blessed Rumsfeld, free world saviour....

Still now at least we have Alberto 'DeSalvo' Gonzales.

Now there's a figure to really despise.

	04-02-2005 17:18									#23
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Sgt. Rummy: "I hope Allah's wearing Kevlar!"

	04-02-2005 17:32									#24
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom And somewhere, did a cockerel crow.....?

Damn! That was just too quick for me. I was going to post that.

Well done though molly.

	04-02-2005 17:35									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle I'd say his integrity is high. Instead of ducking the issue and making Rumsfeld the fall guy Bush took the brunt. In an election year too. Audacity or balls? I call balls.

balls
I call that disrespect.

Let's say we catch some americans, the interior minister gives me okay to torture them. Then everything comes to public, the president apologizes and wins the election.
How about looking stupid?

YEAHH!!! Wohooo! He apologized. Soo cool that man. And Rummy wohoo yeah, he is sooo cute...

	04-02-2005 17:44									#26
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How can the public verify this really happened?

	04-02-2005 18:46									#27
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this is BS. when you feel you msust resign then you do so. end of story.

	04-02-2005 19:16									#28
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Rummy wasn't resigning because he felt he should resign. He was just offering to fall on his sword. Bush doesn't sacrifice his friends, only poor people, or his friends who've committed crimes so bad that Bush can't help them (Ken Lay).

It's not like Bush hasn't accepted the resignations of plenty of decent people.

It may also have been because of the election that Bush refused to accept Rummy's resignation. If he accepted Rummy's resignation, then Bush admits that there are problems in the Iraq war, which he wouldn't want to do. Far from taking the blame, Bush was again ducking responsibility.

	04-02-2005 19:21									#29
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If Bush had let Rummy go, it would be tantamount to a public admission of misdeeds, mistakes and unfortunate circumstances where the White House is trying to convey an image of "everything's ok".

	05-02-2005 15:55									#30
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Well done though molly.

Just call me 'Quick Draw McGraw'- I'll never let an opportunity to lampoon a deserving Repug. go by.

I'm liking the Alberto 'DeSalvo' Gonzales thang too. Might be a tad obscure for some, but it works for me...