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Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Mar 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Yes, but it's based on their historical practice.


You're probably right in this case, but in general I would say that just being a Maoist does not mean that you are going to practice genocide.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Here's a question for you Che. Is there a ideological difference between Maoism and say Leninism, or is Maoism just a label for 'bad' communists?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Maoism is a type of Stalinism, which, like Trotskyism, is a type of Leninism. Maoists argue two different things. In the 3rd world, they argue that the proletariat is too weak to carry out the task of overthrowing capitalism, and that only the peasantry can make the revolution. In the 1st world, they argue that the proletariat has been bought off by imperialism, and has become reactionary, and that only the lumpen-proletariat and most oppressed sections of the proletariat (racial minorities, etc.) will take up the task of revolution. So they aren't very Marxist, despite professing adherence to his ideas.

As for Lenin, as with Stalin, the only part of democratic centralism they like is the centralism part. I only know of one Maoist organization in the U.S. that is internally democratic, Freedom Road.

This isn't to say there aren't lessons to be learned from Mao, China's revolution, etc. Nor would I argue that Maoists are totally useless. The Revolutionary Communist Party did organize one of the first two anti-war groups opposing Bush (a curious Trotskyist-Maoist amalgamation called Workers' World created the second). I had some Maoist comrades in Chicago, from whom I learned a lot about the radical movements in the '70s and '80s, as well as practical organizing lessons. I suspect I'm going to have to deal with a lot of Maoists here in Florida.

Still, in the third world, Maoist guerilla groups have been quite willing to slaughter those that stood in their way. One only needs look at the experiences of Africa and Peru. Cambodia was exceptional, even for Maoism, and Pol Pot took more inspiration from Robbespierre than Mao in any event.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 04-02-2005 20:18
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I've got an idea. Why don't the communists get together and decide exactly what their message should be, because it gets confusing after a while.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Okay, but only after all the Christians do it first.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Okay, but only after all the Christians do it first.


Well, if your saying communism is like a religion than I guess thats fine. I always had a feeling it was like that.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Seriously though, Maoists suck. They have this horrid tendency to kill their problems away. Course, the Nepalese government is worse, so relatively speaking, the Maoists are better.


Trotskyite

St Leo is offline St Leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Well, if your saying communism is like a religion than I guess thats fine. I always had a feeling it was like that.


Religions are a subset of ideologies, not vice versa.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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  Old Post 04-02-2005 20:40
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Well, if your saying communism is like a religion than I guess thats fine. I always had a feeling it was like that.


Religions are a subset of ideologies, not vice versa.


Come on. They parade around with large pictures of Lenin and Marx and the local commie. They have different groups claiming to have the correct version of their belief. They sit around and talk all day about obsure quotes attributed to Marx or Lenin. They just gather in meetings and talk back and forth about the comming revolution. If you live in a poor country they just go out and ****ing kill people since its all justified for the cause.

Give it another hundred years or so and the myth and legends will be really good. Now if only they can get rid of the heritics

Heresson is offline Heresson
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 04-02-2005 21:25
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chegitz, I love your new avatar!!!

I'm honoured

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Maoism is a type of Stalinism, which, like Trotskyism, is a type of Leninism. Maoists argue two different things. In the 3rd world, they argue that the proletariat is too weak to carry out the task of overthrowing capitalism, and that only the peasantry can make the revolution. In the 1st world, they argue that the proletariat has been bought off by imperialism, and has become reactionary, and that only the lumpen-proletariat and most oppressed sections of the proletariat (racial minorities, etc.) will take up the task of revolution. So they aren't very Marxist, despite professing adherence to his ideas.


You have to admit that there is a lot of truth to this. I agree that this is bastardized Marxism though.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Seriously though, Maoists suck. They have this horrid tendency to kill their problems away. Course, the Nepalese government is worse, so relatively speaking, the Maoists are better.


In my opinion I think it is the other way around. The lesser of the two evils is definitely the King here. But still both types of rule really suck for the Nepalese people. They actually are a pretty peaceful people.. why did they ever deserve this? ****ing communists rebels.. I really hope they do get wiped out. Besides the US did give assistance to the Nepalese government some time ago.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Another question if anyone knows. Are the Maoist rebels an ethnic group? Chinese maybe?

Odin is offline Odin
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Sep 2000
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  Old Post 04-02-2005 23:12
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Despots and absolute monarchs:

Maoists and Stalinists:

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Here's a commentary from the bbc. The rebels claim to want to set up a communist republic. They may get the support of the some displaced parties.



Nepal king's biggest gamble

quote:
By Rabindra Mishra
BBC Nepali service



King Gyanendra at his coronation after the royal massacre of 2001
By sacking Prime Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba's government for the second time in just over two years and taking full control of the state power, Nepal's King Gyanendra has taken an unprecedented risk.
He knows he will have to win a three-way power struggle involving the monarchy, a powerful Maoist rebel movement and Nepal's parliamentary parties.

If he loses, his throne itself could be in danger.

He has said he will form a new cabinet under his direct leadership.

But the Maoist rebels appear stronger by the day. No one knows whether the king will be able to deal with the civil war successfully where the politicians have failed.

Impossible task?

Many analysts had been saying that direct rule was probably the last option left to the king to deal with the crisis.


The Maoists have insisted on direct talks with the king

The alternative was the strong lobby in the country advocating for the restoration of the dissolved House of Parliament.

That would have meant a return to full democracy after the king sacked the elected government of Mr Deuba in October 2002.

Mr Deuba was appointed again in June last year after the king's pro-royalist nominees, Mr Lokendra Bahadur Chand and Mr Surya Bahadur Thapa, failed to make progress in resolving the Maoist crisis.

When Mr Deuba was reappointed, he was asked by the king to form a government by trying to get into fold as many political parties as possible, restore peace in the country and start the process of holding general elections by March this year.

Many predicted it was an impossible task.

No progress

He got off to a bad start when the largest political party in the dissolved parliament, the Nepali Congress, refused to co-operate. Some other smaller parties also cold-shouldered him.

If the king fails, there is a possibility that the political parties might establish some sort of working relationship with the Maoists and try to get rid of the king himself


However, an unlikely combination, the right-wing National Democratic Party and the centre-left Nepal Communist Party (United Marxist-Leninist) and another small party decided to join the government. They argued that this was the best way of limiting the king's political manipulations.

As it turned out, Mr Deuba made no progress in ending the fighting. The Maoists simply refused to negotiate with him, denouncing him as the king's puppet and insisting on direct talks with the king himself.

Mr Deuba responded by expressing his determination to hold general elections.

The idea of holding elections was mocked by all political parties because of the deteriorating security situation and the Maoist threat to disrupt any polls.

In theory, King Gyanendra should have been in favour of the elections as he had been insisting on them when he reappointed Mr Deuba as prime minister.

But Mr Deuba had been telling many journalists off the record that the king himself did not, in fact, want the elections to be held.

It is certainly true that if a date for elections had already been announced, it would have made it harder for the king to justify his decision to rule directly and impose a state of emergency.

Not a quiet king

Some in Nepal have always been suspicious of the king's democratic credentials.

He became the king in unexpected and dramatic circumstances after his brother and other members of his family were killed in a shoot-out at the royal palace in June 2001.


Political parties have campaigned for months for parliament to be restored

Immediately after his enthronement, he said he would not be a quiet king like his brother and would play a more active role in Nepali life.

His involvement in state affairs opened up the country's three way power struggle.

Many had been calling for a united front between the king and Nepal's political parties.

King Gyanendra never took up such an initiative and now looks to have decided to sideline the parties completely.

So his success now depends entirely on whether he will be able to bring the Maoist rebels back to the negotiating table and reach some sort of deal in restoring peace in the country.

It is a tall order, not least because the basic aims of the Maoists has long been the abolition of the monarchy and the establishment of a communist republic.

However, if the king succeeds, he may gain some support. If he fails, there is a possibility that the political parties might establish some sort of working relationship with the Maoists and try to get rid of the king himself.

Whatever the future course, the state of Nepal has been plunged into further uncertainty.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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  Old Post 06-02-2005 20:46
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Seriously though, Maoists suck.
Glad you finally updated your views from this thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=49618

New kind of Maoist indeed!

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Looking at that thread I see that some people were claiming that the rebels didn't have any support of the people. According to the bbc they do. They now control a good part of the country, and enjoy popular support in many places.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Causes with the support of the people don't have to murder those self same people.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Causes with the support of the people don't have to murder those self same people.


This is not very clear.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 06-02-2005 22:58 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Glad you finally updated your views from this thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=49618

New kind of Maoist indeed!


I was speaking in the current thread in general. I've heard good and bad things about the comrades in Nepal, so it's hard to say with certainty what the amount of their suckage is.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Causes with the support of the people don't have to murder those self same people.


Now I understand this. You're saying that if they had the support of the people they wouldn't have to kill them. Of course they don't have the support of all the people. They wouldn't need a revolution if they did. So you don't have a point.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
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Aug 2000
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  Old Post 07-02-2005 01:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Of course the maoist revolution has to be put down at all costs,


How?

Out of all the countries in the world, the one I'd least like to tackle guerillas in would be Nepal. It's all mountains and dense forest- terrible groud to fight in.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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When he says at all costs, he means that all the costs that he can make others pay. I doubt that he will actually volunteer to go fight rebels in Nepal.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
Soon the commies will take the highest peak on earth. Then there will no one to stop us.


Yes, it will be all downhill from there.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Yes, it will be all downhill from there.




We are PWNed!!11!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
When he says at all costs, he means that all the costs that he can make others pay. I doubt that he will actually volunteer to go fight rebels in Nepal.


Maybe Fez can go to the communist held areas, and try and explain how bad things are for them there.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


We are PWNed!!11!


Some of you seem to own goal remarkably often...

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Yes, it will be all downhill from there.


I'm glad you don't participate in the com/cap debates. They could use a guy like you.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Kid, no one would even notice the extra pwnage.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


How?

Out of all the countries in the world, the one I'd least like to tackle guerillas in would be Nepal. It's all mountains and dense forest- terrible groud to fight in.


Easy. Give the Nepalese Military tons and tons of guns. Hands off approach. But I hate the absolute monarch in Nepal, as well as the rebels. I don't see anything good coming out of this. I think the King will crush the rebels no problem (cause the Nepalese military is far stronger then the Maoists and is actually receiving international support), but both sides really suck.

I don't really see much economic potential in Nepal. If this country had oil, then I would truly care.

 
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