05-02-2005 02:17									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon It used to be that you could reason with a Republican. That is less and less the case.

Being a republican most of my life, I absolutely agree with you about this.

@ Ned, yes Guiliani, Arnold, McCain, Lugar, even McConnell and other Republican leaders are still what I think of as "old school Republicans"

	05-02-2005 02:33									#32
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quote: Being a republican most of my life, I absolutely agree with you about this.

Both sides used to be committed to the same basic principles of liberalism (not "liberal" in the sense it is used now). They mainly disagreed over particulars and implementation.

McCain and co. still are, but the others seem to have abandoned the Enlightenment values the US was founded on.

	05-02-2005 02:41									#33
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The new conservative ideology seems to be made up of these three principles:

1) might is right.
2) might is truth
3) unless the masters say it isn't

	05-02-2005 02:43									#34
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quote: 1) might is right. 2) might is truth 3) unless the masters say it isn't

er, you mean:
1. the right is truth, justice, and the american way.

?

	05-02-2005 02:57									#35
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No, there are Americans and anti-Americans. There is no middle ground.

	05-02-2005 03:00									#36
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quote: No, there are Americans and anti-Americans. There is no middle ground.

quote: 1. the right is truth, justice, and the american way.

i don't see a difference, except in my line, i don't define those who aren't on the right.

	05-02-2005 03:01									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon The Missile Defence program isn't about defence. It is an attempt to give the United States the ability to wage nuclear war against moderately armed nuke states without suffering any reprisals.

It's not even that. It's a subsidy to Raytheon, pure and simple.

	05-02-2005 03:04									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ned No, there are Americans and anti-Americans. There is no middle ground.

This probably proves the how much of a "liberal" I am, but I have trouble believing that this isn't a joke.

	05-02-2005 03:09									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Ned No, there are Americans and anti-Americans. There is no middle ground.

But I'm both.

	05-02-2005 03:09									#40
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Wouldn't it be easier to give them the money for stealth tanks? When Congress asks to see the tanks, they could just say "sorry, they're stealth tanks, you can't see them"?

I'll invoke Carling's Bigger Cheney Theory of Foreign Policy on this one. They feel they need to show that the US is still the best - afterall, 3rd rate hellholes like NK make mere nukes these days. It's part of Reagan's legacy, too.

	05-02-2005 03:11									#41
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quote: No, there are Americans and anti-Americans. There is no middle ground.

I'm just curious, what if you support America, by and large, but have issues with how the current administration is behaving? Or, if you support America in everything except, say, its policies in space, or science, or food preparation?

	05-02-2005 03:12									#42
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to OP

	05-02-2005 03:12									#43
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quote: Wouldn't it be easier to give them the money for stealth tanks? When Congress asks to see the tanks, they could just say "sorry, they're stealth tanks, you can't see them"?

According to CIA, the Russians have subs like this.

	05-02-2005 03:17									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ned No, there are Americans and anti-Americans. There is no middle ground.

wrong, there are morons that think this way, then there's the rest of the country who is reasonable and sane.

	05-02-2005 12:35									#45
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Great article, echoes my thoughts exactly

	05-02-2005 13:30									#46
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I found it to be a pretty good read too. If Bush really wanted to half the deficit like he claims then this one project would get him $200 billion.

	05-02-2005 14:08									#47
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GREAT PIECE!

quote: Your neigbor decides to take precautions. He leaves his doors and windows unlocked. He sits on the roof, armed with a SpongeBob SquarePants air-rifle, just in case the killers return and attack the house by hang-glider this time. And the air rifle doesn't work. And he spent EVERY DIME HE HAD on the air rifle.

Heh, I sometimes invoke nearly the same analogy in our quarter-annual Apolyton ABM threads, only I liken it to spending a fortune on a chimney-defense system for a house without closeable windows or doors.


Same result: waste of money that buys no defense value at all. But people support it!

And meanwhile ... Abu Ghraib.

How do we get back to the days where our biggest concern was executive blowjobs? I liked that world better.

Dude, where's my country's reputation?

	05-02-2005 16:50									#48
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The real scandals always come from the Republicans. Watergate, Iran-Contra, Bush's torture plans. How significant is a blow job compared to that?

	05-02-2005 17:13									#49
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The Apollo Program left with Nixon.

I miss Nixon.

	05-02-2005 17:24									#50
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The fact remains that the Republicans traditionally are far more corrupt when they're President then Democrats.

	05-02-2005 17:30									#51
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Over what time frame?

	05-02-2005 17:34									#52
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I consider the recent times to be Nixon on word since that's roughly the time frame I've been alive though technically Nixon was long gone by the time I was born.

	05-02-2005 17:55									#53
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So we're discussing a period of thirty-seven years, twelve of which occured under Democrat presidents, and twenty-five of which occured under Republican presidents.

In that time frame, we have:

Watergate
Iran-Contra
Whitewater
Paula Jones
Abu Garib

How does Abu Garib qualify as presidential corruption?

	05-02-2005 19:44									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The real scandals always come from the Republicans. Watergate, Iran-Contra, Bush's torture plans. How significant is a blow job compared to that?

Oerdin, what you are saying is that the Dems are better at blow jobs, either giving or receiving.

Watergate was a scandal in that Nixon authorized a coverup and lied about it. Both were wrong, admittedly.

Iran Contra was about Ollie North supplying the Contras, which was the right thing to do. Regardless of the Dems best efforts, North has nothing to apologize for. In my book, he remains a hero.

Bush torture? Get serious. Abu Gharaib was about criminal behaviour by very junior people.

	05-02-2005 19:47									#55
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk The Apollo Program left with Nixon. I miss Nixon.

Nixon indeed was a very effective president, until the nattering nabobs of negativism negated his nascient second term.

	05-02-2005 19:48									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The fact remains that the Republicans traditionally are far more corrupt when they're President then Democrats.

Oerdin, you have not concept of what corruption is.

	05-02-2005 19:50									#57
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk So we're discussing a period of thirty-seven years, twelve of which occured under Democrat presidents, and twenty-five of which occured under Republican presidents. In that time frame, we have: Watergate Iran-Contra Whitewater Paula Jones Abu Garib How does Abu Garib qualify as presidential corruption?

Or for that matter, what does Iran Contra have to do with presidential corruption?

	05-02-2005 19:55									#58
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk So we're discussing a period of thirty-seven years, twelve of which occured under Democrat presidents, and twenty-five of which occured under Republican presidents. In that time frame, we have: Watergate Iran-Contra Whitewater Paula Jones Abu Garib How does Abu Garib qualify as presidential corruption?

Except Whitewater wasn't an example of Presidential corrution, as Ken Starr showed after spending $63 million of our dollars. Nor was Paula Jones, as no corruption was involved, nor did it even occur during his Presidency (like Waterwater). You Republicans are so dishonest and petty. The country would be better off without you.

	05-02-2005 19:57									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Or for that matter, what does Iran Contra have to do with presidential corruption?

The President authorized a program that violated U.S. law. How does that not involve corruption? Glad to know you have a hero who planned to overthrow the Republic. It shows just what kind of low, down scum many Republicans are.

	05-02-2005 20:09									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Oerdin, what you are saying is that the Dems are better at blow jobs, either giving or receiving.

You hear him, boys? Vote democrat for more blowjobs!