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Jaakko
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in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:26
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quote:
Originally posted by BeBro
Isn't it unfair to jump on someone who is already down? |
The rules include both standup and ground fighting, so no. The Atomic Butt Drop was a good idea by Hunt, who was ~20kg heavier than Silva, but less skilled on the ground.
Generally, the guy on the ground is much less at a disadvantage than you might think. He can kick out his opponent's knees if he comes too close, and if his opponent comes to the ground too to fight, it's anyone's game.
One of the most legendary MMA fighters of all time, Royce Gracie, used to regularly tire out his opponents, often much bigger than him (Royce was about 80kg IIRC), on his back on the ground, then do a submission hold on them, ranging from chokes to joint locks.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:26
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Wrongo on all accounts. Silva and ChuteBox are known to use the stomp at all times, meaning if it was Silva who was up, he'd most likely look to stomp the other ones face, meaning he could also jump and go airborn, and stomp the face, which is legal. In that scenario the defendor puts his legs up to divert the course of the feet of the opponent and move your upper body and head to avoid the stomp to your face.
Hunt obviously isn't too flexible guy, he couldn't do the stopm silva does, but he goes for something weird like that. Hunt is not experienced MMA fighter, but he is experineced K-1 fighter so he knows stand up, I don't know what the hell that is he pulled off but seems to me he just wanted to do something Silva does, and make fun of him plus maybe that does hurt, after all Silva is close to 100 kg and Hunt is 125 kg. Other than that, that's not a serious move. Maybe a bit of showboating as well.
However hunt was no way controlling that fight  . I agree he deserved the win though, but it was a close one and if it was me I would have ruled it a tie. but I accept Hunt win, by very close marginal.
UR, and no that's not wrestling, it's real fighting. Stop trolling you know better.
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Jaakko
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in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:26
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I liked Hunt's performance and think he has a lot of promise once he gets some ground experience.
I mean, Silva was getting pwned on the stand up, and couldn't make a dent on Hunt on the ground.
Last edited by Jaakko on 07-02-2005 at 16:07
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:26
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Sure.. WEll you have to understand that I'm a long time MMA fan (saw my first ufc in 1994!1), so I have trained my eye to the max!!!!!!  I don't think I'm biased against K-1 fighters, because I quite like it myself. And Hunt too. I was looking forward to see someone beat Silva. Of course he is still dominant in his own weight class but no less of an achievement by Hunt. To his credit, he has worked a lot and it's paying off. I hope he stays in Pride.
But yes, I mean, in Pride as well as all MMA, the damage factor usually counts, meaning that it doesn't matter if he gets few more punches in. Well just like in K-1 so you know the deal. But Hunt also got a yellow card which is automatic point reduction, and it's a big deal, and that's why it was a bit controversial judging. If there was no yellow card, the edge might be enough to judge it to Hunt, because of the few flurries he was able to do, and the fact that he was pushing the stand up. I don't think it was decisive enough to rule it to Hunt after yellow card though.
I think the mistake Silva made was that he thought he could trade with Hunt, which he obivously couldn't do. He should have sticked with take downs and ground fighting. But it's not his style, even though he is a black belt in BJJ. He wants to bang. Didn't pay off this time.
Also what must be known is that Japanese have long time wanted to see Silva lose. He is not hated, but .. he's the guy they wanted to see lose, because of the long rivalry between Silva and Sakuraba, plus the fact that he has kicked Japanese ass for years lkie it was nothing. Pride is partly to be blamed, because they put tomato cans in front of him. But they wanted to see a local guy win Silva, because who ever would win Silva, would become a superstar and a hero. It's a big thing in there and it means a lot.
Hunt wasn't getting his ass kicked. That's for sure. He always looks like he's drunk. Some people mistake that for being dazed. But he really wasn't in trouble standing up. But the yellow card and the fact that it wasn't decisive enough after that, I don't know, I thought it was a tie. But I wouldn't have ruled it to Silva either, so as a .. overall I think tie or Hunt win. So it wasn't TOO far off.
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Space05us
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quote:
Once Hunt was in the air jumping, it was too late to do anything except to defend and ride it out. |
If he was half out of it. If I were him I would have been rolling or crawling like a sunova***** the second big buys feet left the ground.
quote:
But in any case, the guy on the ground definitely doesn't want to show his back to the guy on who's on his feet |
No need to show his back, he could roll out and get on his feet by the time the guy jumping was just starting to readjust his weight to stand back up. Then he could have done any number of things.
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Space05us
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quote:
Space, don't embarrash yourself anymore |
What you dont think he could have gotten out of the way?
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Space05us
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My friend who wrestled for 5 years on the state level even agrees that the guy on bottom had plenty of time to roll out of the way.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:26
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True, true, but you don't know he's just jumping. No one has ever done that. When they do that, they always stomp. And yes, they are amazingly good to land that feet to the face from the air, even when you move. If you roll, you expose your back and the back of your head and neck. That's just outright dangerous and easy target. THat's why they lift the legs up like Silva does, if he would have stomped, Silva would have caught his hips/legs with his feet, and divert the stomp and THEN dodge the foot. That's how they do it. If you roll, you will get hit for sures.
I agree, from the JUMP alone, he could avoid it, but he got whooped with atomic butt drop! 
If that becoems a trademark move for Hunt, which I doubt, then sure, roll away. But I wouldn't risk it, thinking it would be a stomp.... you have to see how they do the stomp, then you see why it is defended like Silva goes on defending. They are amazingly accurate. Besides, if he would have rolled and it would have been a .. succesful roll, and Hunt would have missed the stomp had he done that, then it would have been a free soccer kick. And that happesn a lot too. So that's why they rather 'clinch' than try to dodge it all together.
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Space05us
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quote:
you have to see how they do the stomp, then you see why it is defended like Silva goes on defending. |
I'll have to agree with you on that I suppose.
quote:
Besides, if he would have rolled and it would have been a .. succesful roll, and Hunt would have missed the stomp had he done that, then it would have been a free soccer kick. |
When I say roll out I dont mean roll out and lay there, I mean roll out, post an arm, get up on your feet spin around and face the opponent. It can be done in barely a second if you're fast enough.
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06-02-2005 05:02
I wish I could watch MMA events on tv, unfortunalty they arent available up here. 
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