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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:26
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My response ...
Beta, i'm not aware of any of this, and to be completely honest i'm not sure what to tell you. From our end we see a three team alliance against DR, and LB is a question mark. What's going on with Paddy, only he could tell you ...
Math should not be a problem, we should be able to aquire it via other means, although we'd probably expect a bit more technologically, in the long run; we understand that you took the deal proposed in good faith, and aren't going to press it.
Why you would go to war with DR, I presume, is to rid the world of the dangerous team of DR, who is at their most dangerous right now. They would soon get iron connected, were it not for our crack team of archers and spearmen bearing down on them; and they would be then the dominant world power, with immortals and a quick GA at their leisure.
We appreciate your support, and hope it will be forthcoming, in time for what will be much needed rear pincers action in a dozen turns or so. Whatever happens with BOH, do not doubt our strength of conviction, and the alliance we have made with you will remain as such.
In terms of borders arrangements, at least on the DR side of things we will be very amenable to delineating a border that is favorable to both sides; although it looks like our military will probably take the brunt of the action, we see no reason to desire an unfair portion of the land - this game is unlikely to last long enough to settle all of that space anyway, regardless of the exact border delineation.
Also, if LB ends up in this mix as well on the opposite side, we would probably expect and hope that you lead the strike against them - and given their close proximity to you, undoubtedly you would gain much from that strike. Of course, any efforts you can take to delay action on their part would be appreciated, and if they don't end up against us, so much the better.
Thanks for the update, and I hope you can figure things out with Paddy?
-Snoopy369, Foreign Minister, Keyboard
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:26
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Beta The BOH -Babylon relationship is getting seriously frayed.
Beta They presneted us with a border deal as I explained.
Beta They figure that since they attacked A_M unilaterally, they get the land.
Beta We explained that in an alliance, there has to be something in it for everyone.
snoopy369 Yes.
Beta Paddy says his teams views stand - and that now they are pissed with us.
Beta Although tonight he did ask for a counter-proposal.
Beta Whic for us - would be to split the A-M land.
snoopy369 You and Paddy have a very different view of things here.
Beta Yes - clearly.
snoopy369 This is where the issue is coming. 
snoopy369 Paddy does not view this as a permanent alliance. He views this as an anti-DR alliance.
Beta My folks thinks he brings a pbem view of things.
Beta Yes - agreed.
Beta In which case - our view is why bother.
snoopy369 Hence why he does not take the AM part into account with you; he feels that they are separate issues.
Beta DR is no threat to us.
snoopy369 Well - that is your choice.
snoopy369 I had presumed you were interested in the alliance, when it was brought to us.
snoopy369 But we had no knowledge of why, or on what terms
Beta Our agreement to the DR campaign was for a long-term alliance.
snoopy369 Was it?
snoopy369 in writing, I mean?
snoopy369 or was it implied??
Beta Implied.
snoopy369 Paddy was very specific with us, that he did not think of this as a long term alliance, but as a specific alliance; not that we can't work together as a group towards common goals, but that the three of us were, first, an alliance for one goal.
snoopy369 We are more flexible, than he is, i think, in this regard.
Beta And more reasonable too I may add.
snoopy369 We see a need to eliminate DR, now, for two reasons, one of which you share, possibly the other.
snoopy369 I like to think so.
snoopy369 One, that you share I presume, is that Aqua's team, if fully active, is the most dangerous in the game. It contains some of the best PBEM players, and some of the more knowledgable DG players, at Poly.
snoopy369 And furthermore they have, at this stage in the game, the most dangerous civ.
Beta Understood.
snoopy369 Thus, they are *inherently* a danger, in and of themselves, regardless of map position or anything else.
snoopy369 The second, which may or may not concern you - i'll get to that in a bit - is their position on the map.
snoopy369 We certainly need to take them out, because of their proximity to us, and the fact that we are one of two logical targets; the second is Lost Boys, and they seem to be allying with DR, at least in some ways.
Beta How so?
snoopy369 Well, LB went from last in tech, to equal with DR, in one turn.
snoopy369 Gaining at least 2 if not 3 techs instantly.
Beta We heard runours from Paddy to this effect.
snoopy369 We *must* presume that means they are, in some ways, close to DR, and less likely to be attacked by them.
Beta We traded Poly to them.
snoopy369 Poly was not one of those techs (as we didn't have it to know).
snoopy369 (Did you give us poly by now?)
snoopy369 i forget 
Beta ok
Beta yes
snoopy369 ah k
snoopy369 anyway
Beta How did you get math?
snoopy369 Ankh-Morpork. 
snoopy369 It may be tricksy for us to get it to BoH, however, if you get my meaning.
Beta Us too. DR would not trade it.
snoopy369 ah, you traded AM for it?
Beta Yes - I understand your meaning.
Beta Yep - last turn.
snoopy369 ah; sad that you didn't wait to get it from us, although if BoH is as thorough as they claim with AM, it won't matter much.
snoopy369 But, i'd rather not be giving them techs DR can get.
snoopy369 Anyway, your second reason for concern would be that, if DR decides to leave us alone due to our sizeable military presence, and is allied to LB, you are next, by default.
Beta We had been working on a deal with A-M for awhile. They have been good neighbours and trade partners.
snoopy369 We are a bit concerned that DR hasn't even tried to connect their iron with.
snoopy369 yet*
Beta Understood. I have been trying to contact 1889 of LB, without succcess. He is not as 'connceted' as others - but I am worried somewhat.
snoopy369 It doesn't make sense ...
Beta I see what you mean.
snoopy369 how do you play Persia without bothering to make immortals?
Beta btw - did you take their settler??
snoopy369 And how do you play a DG in these cramped situations
snoopy369 No, we have not declared war yet.
snoopy369 That settler settled years ago.
Beta k
snoopy369 We are now on their border; we are deciding as to when to declare, probably putting it off a bit.
Beta Yes - this DG is a challenge
snoopy369 Waiting for a swordsman stack may be ... optimal. We are not yet forced to attack, as they haven't connected the iron, nor even tried to.
Beta Can they get it from LB??
snoopy369 They have between 9 and 12 units, depending on how many are warriors.
snoopy369 I don't think they are connected.
snoopy369 And, I don't think LB has two.
Beta k
snoopy369 LB also has an iron-needing UU i believe, so is somewhat unlikely to give it to them
snoopy369 but who knows
snoopy369 but that road could be cut without a war declaration
Beta understood
Beta Ok - let me see if I can make some headway with Paddy and crew.
Beta and btw - the vote at Babylon was to connect the horse city next.
Beta
snoopy369 I think you two both should look to the long haul.
snoopy369 Neither of you is going to be able to use a whole lot of the AM land.
Beta That's what I am trying for.
snoopy369 It's not going to be that long of a game.
Beta Agreed.
Beta But it is more of an atttude thing.
snoopy369 Our main concern, is that you all seem to be ... slow to get involved in the DR war.
snoopy369 Oh, sure.
snoopy369 I understand that.
snoopy369 We need to know when you are going to get involved, and how much.
snoopy369 And if you don't want to at all - fine, but we should know.
snoopy369 I understand you are running this team as a real democracy, or something like that, but some committments are necessary.
Beta We could get involved now - with Bowmen. But you can understand why we do not want to do that.
snoopy369 Oh sure. I care not, to be honest, what you decide to get involved *with*. I just need a time and a number.
Beta So - after the chat - we agreed to proceed along the lines of preparing for the campaign.
snoopy369 Involvement at all will suit our purposes, splitting DR.
Beta But in all honesty - that means building a city, connecting horses, and building horsemen.
snoopy369 We understand that.
snoopy369 Just give me a time
Beta We were a peaceful rexxing civ up until then.
snoopy369 or tell me a rough time ,and when you can have a time exact ...
Beta I'm working on it.
snoopy369 :t
Beta Gotta go. Sandman calleth.
snoopy369 ahh ok
Beta talk to you soon.
snoopy369 but please work ... soon, on a time. It is a top priority for us, to know when - and if - we can rely on you folks ...
snoopy369 Good night
Beta Ok good night, snoop!
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:26
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Sent to Beta and Kloreep:
Heya ...
We're currently considering an interesting trade with you. See, we want chivalry, quickly, given how much it would help our cause. You have something that we don't - a free tech coming in a bit.
We are considering offering you, once we obtain them (in the near future, maybe 8 turns), all of the remaining techs you need to advance to the next era, in exchange for:
Your free tech, only, if it is Monotheism or Feudalism;
Your free tech, if Engineering, plus a guaranteed one-for-one trade (at our sole option) of our-researched Feudalism for your-researched Monotheism, and a promise that you will research said tech immediately, and at the highest rate you can do so without losing money (or something close to that - specific details can come later). We would also consider funding a small deficit if it helps in turns a lot.
We're not 100% agreed on this, so I'm not offering this as a done deal if you take it - but I think it will be approved, just need to make sure certain people like it.
Some of the terms may be negotiable, though there's not a whole lot to negotiate there. At the moment it looks like we'll be giving you 4 techs in exchange for your free, although you undoubtedly will be getting one of those four yourself soon? (You would have the opportunity of course to go to 0% science for a few turns, unless you're researching republic, given you'd be getting the tech you're currently on.)
Please let us know if this is something you folk would consider.
Thanks - Snoopy the Bard
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McMeadows
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right here, right now
Mar 1999
time: 06:26
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received by mail:
Dear Great and Bloody Khan of the Horde.
My humble apologies for our silence. Prayer and study. Prayer and study. It is the Babylonian way.
I am pleased to say that Monarchy is completed. We can complete a tech deal shortly. We do ask that you not trade it on to other civs. It has been quite an investment in research and we would like to get caught up in tech.
Also - you had provided a rendevous point for the 1st Babylonian Cavalry Corps. Our horse are ariving singly, and in fact Sheridan is now 9-9-9-9 of the identified site next to the volcanoes. Sinclair is 3 tiles from that point, and Ivanova three tiles behind. Other units are produced next turn and talke the field. One horse is remaining behind to scout the western front.
So, in terms of military action, we will take our cue from you or Euphoriscan. Please advise.
In terms of tech dealing, we may want to time a trade of Monarchy to DR. If it is done, we should do it, as it would be an obvious trade if we are taking them up on their offer of co-operation. The trick is, we monitor the f3 screen, and when they fall into anarchy - we attack. They are not religious, so we have 3-6 turns with no production. If we foresee a quick and decisive strike by our three civs, this may work to our advantage. Please give the idea some thought, and feel free to discuss it with Bards. I am cc'ing McMeadows, so he will be aware of our conversation and the status of tech and military matters.
Regards from Babylon, and may the good will of Inanna bless your Great Blood Hall and all those that abide there. ....Beta of babylon.
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:26
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To Babs:
quote:
We and our various allies have decided that the deal, as we proposed, is a good one and we would like to do it, if you are still agreeable.
Just to make sure we mutually recall it correctly:
We give you Constr and Currency, to bring you into the next age (This is what you are lacking for next age, right?).
You give us your free tech.
If it is Engineering, we will work jointly to achieve in a reasonably short time Feudalism and Monotheism and trade it mutually (as is). Probably you should research Monotheism, as you are slightly faster than we.
We will have these techs completed in 3 turns at the latest, according to my understanding from McM etc. At that point we will send the two techs - accepted to you. You will then immediately turn around and send us-accepted your free tech that same turn.
Of course, if you do get mono/feudalism, we will still happily work on other trades with you We simply want to make sure we get chivalry reasonably soon, to help us against DR.
Thanks,
Snoopy369
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:26
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Text of my chat with team babylon ...
Session Start: Tue Jul 12 23:33:35 2005
Session Ident: #babembassy
[22:17] * Now talking in #babembassy
[22:17] lo
[22:17] Hi
[22:17] * Kloreep sets mode: +oo E_T snoopy369
[22:18] thx
[22:18] So, do you have any idea why BOH pulled this card?
[22:18] We're trying to figure out in the forum why they did it now
[22:18] I understand
[22:18] don't like it, mind you
[22:19] very much don't like it
[22:19] but I know why they did.
[22:19] Well, know why they are pulling back anyway
[22:19] not why they were such asses about it
[22:19] For that ... you may have to contact Freud or Jung ...
[22:19]
[22:19] Did you know that they want Feud for the Gov?
[22:19] Their number crunchers think the Antioch attack is now a mistake
[22:19] oh yes
[22:19] so do we
[22:19] K, we didn't
[22:19] we're going to ask you to send it to us, actually
[22:20] they told us in the same email as you, but i think we guessed it
[22:20] earlier
[22:20] we have no problem, as with you not having horses, we had figured that you would defiately need
it
[22:20] Since they had traded for Monarchy from us, we thought that was going to be it
[22:20] So, did they contact you beforehand about this?
[22:20] No.
[22:20] Or did it come out of the blue for you guys too?
[22:20] Ah.
[22:20] That's a lot of the difficulty for us...
[22:20] that, and the tone of the post
[22:21] Yes.
[22:21] Anyway, they think the antioch attack is a mistake, based on the intel about what's in
the city
[22:21] I think they have the forces to destroy antioch, at least on average
[22:21] Interesting
[22:21] honestly it comes down to, Ljube (and probably others) is a very cautious player
[22:21] We've gotten nothing from them since the message
[22:21] they don't want to take chances
[22:21] and admittedly they could lose a lot at antioch
[22:21] but they could also win ... at least 50/50 odds if not better of winning
[22:22] and if they destroy antioch? then DR is done
[22:22] what Intel do you have?
[22:22] and if they fail, but do serious damage? DR can't do anything to us for 20-30 turns
[22:22] a third party did a recon of the city for us (in exchange for gold)
[22:22] exact knowledge, I believe, of the contents of the city
[22:22] what did you find?
[22:22] I forget the exact details, but it's something like 1 spearmen 6 immortals + some minor
<2 defense units
[22:22] and when was it done?
[22:23] just this past turn, after DR's turn I think
[22:23] you send to DR, right?
[22:23] yeah
[22:23] yeh then definitely after DR's turn
[22:23] AM or LB
[22:23] BoH has over 20 units there, according to Ljube
[22:23] well of course
[22:23] Over 20 units?
[22:23] i'm not sure if the third party wants to be identified... not even sure if BoH knows
about it
[22:23] How many offensive?
[22:23] that's what he said
[22:23] not sure
[22:23] but still
[22:24] many of the immortals are injured, 2-3 HP
[22:24] nothing over 4hp, i believe
[22:24] Yeah, still...
[22:24] So they've contacted you since posting that?
[22:24] they have at least 50/50 shot
[22:24] yes i had an hour long frustrating conversation with Ljube
[22:24] he fails to see how CM's post was frustrating or offensive
[22:24] he says it's "just the facts"
[22:24] Well, as we said, when we attacked, fortune favors the bold
[22:24] Yeah, it is just the facts.
[22:25] do they have any Cats in that city?
[22:25] We saw it as quite a factual betrayal.
[22:25] They have I think 2 cats in the city
[22:25] * ShogunGunner has joined #babembassy
[22:25] yes, ET, I agree
[22:25] they are unwilling to take chances
[22:25] Hmmm
[22:25] i'm not even sure what the concern isn
[22:25] for them
[22:25] DR couldn't possibly attack them
[22:25] if they tried, we'd destroy them
[22:26] because they'd have to empty their lands to do it, and be very far from the front ...
[22:26] Do you think they have a deal with DR?
[22:26] I don't think so
[22:26] Paddy is generally honorable
[22:26] only 2, you use 2 strong defenders to trigger them, then attack with others
[22:26] Paddy is only one person, though...
[22:26] yes E-T I know that's why i don't worry about them
[22:26] Paddy would tell us, I think
[22:26] they may be Horde, but he's still the Khan
[22:26] thing is, if they don't attack now, then they can reinforce
[22:26] and he still controls the ultimate actions, even if he has to bow to some of their
opinions
[22:26] yes i know
[22:27] and our sacrifice is worthless if they don't attack now
[22:27] their GA production is very good, surpising while in Despotism
[22:27] If Paddy is so honorable, though...
[22:27] i've made it clear to them that we are more than slightly unhappy with them about it ...
[22:27] As you say, your sacrifice is worthless if they don't
[22:27] Honorable doesn't mean they are entirely acting as they should
[22:27] and ours
[22:27] just that they won't backstab us
[22:27] yes ...
[22:28] i do wish you guys had a few more units but understand your priority is not the same
as ours in this
[22:28] how many more do you have available, btw?
[22:28] this in theory could affect BoH, if we can promise them a second waev shortly thereafter
that they would help out by attacking even in a loss
[22:28] Yes, I would agree it was not a big sacrifice. Feud is a big
part of our sacrifice as I see it.
[22:28] lol
[22:28] and the tone of the last e-mails makes us think that they might be
wanting to find an excuse to be at odd with us
[22:29] They haven't been real happy with you for a long time -- they are very single minded, for
all they are horde, and they don't see you as being the same
[22:29] why aren't they happy, what have we done to make them that way?
[22:29] yes, what did we do to upset them?
[22:29] like i said, we understand that you don't have the same drive to destroy DR as we do -
not the necessity Euphorica does, nor the ... psychosis? ... Paddy/BoH does
[22:30] They think, I believe, that you should have committed a lot more units to this
[22:30] I'm beginning to think the same of them.
[22:30] But it's true we have not been the war machine you two have been
[22:30] we didn't have them, and now, we are looking at a huge Barb Uprising and not really prepaired
(one more turn....)
[22:34] back on topic ... sorry i'm tired
[22:34] np
[22:34] Sorry, I'm a bit distracted
[22:34] C3C ISDG first turn
[22:34] ahhh
[22:34] you playing?
[22:35] Following along, yes
[22:35] cool
[22:35] Anyway...
[22:35] anywho
[22:35] * ShogunGunner has quit IRC (Client exited)
[22:35] DR's opinion (per Ljube anyway):
[22:35] want to join our team for the final round?
[22:35] DR will pull back, because they don't want to do anything dangerous, and wait for Chivalry
[22:35] Perhaps
[22:35] then upon chivalry, a mass of keshiks and riders will destroy DR
[22:35] now
[22:35] If BOH stays in the picture
[22:35] i don't disagree with keshiks and riders destroying DR
[22:36] but
[22:36] ...but we could destroy or at least cripple now
[22:36] it seems as if they want to upgrade their horsemen to keshiks
[22:36] no idea why they think they can do that ...
[22:36] IIRC it's 150gp or something to upgrade a single horse to a keshki
[22:36] keshik*
[22:36] Something insane
[22:36] Knight upgrades were expensive enough in PTW
[22:36] yeh
[22:36] And we need gold to get to Chiv in the first place
[22:37] yep
[22:37] i believe they're paying us to do monotheism
[22:37] if we can do it faster than you anyways - 20 turns i think is our best number, or
something close to that
[22:38] So you're thinking of going with this?
[22:38] Not that there may be much other choice...
[22:38] Oh, i've always intended to rush to chivalry
[22:38] It was always my plan, from the beginning of this game
[22:38] turn 1.
[22:38] Yes
[22:39] But you still trust BOH as an ally in a Chivalry endeavor?
[22:39] and as a team, we pretty much intended to stop attacknig ourselves and get to chivalry
first, maybe one attack in the middle at most
[22:39] because we have nothing ATM
[22:39] do i trust them as an ally? Not sure.
[22:39] * Shogun_Gunner has joined #babembassy
[22:39] I trust that they won't attack us
[22:39] * Kloreep sets mode: +o Shogun_Gunner
[22:39] and they probably will keep supporting us in the attempt to get chivalry
[22:39] sorry, don't know what i did...
[22:40] but i'm not sure if militarily they're trustworthy
[22:40] Supporting in the attempt to get Chivalry, perhaps
[22:40] But militarily, do you think those Keshiks would be alongside you?
[22:40] I think the problem is that they have too much conflict internally
[22:40] thus they say one thing, and then turn around and say another not much later
[22:40] they've slowed down by a turn or two more than once, after all
[22:41] and in this one, a single turn is the difference between them finding Antioch with 3
units in it - as I promised them was likely - and 9
[22:41] their immortals made the city only this past turn
[22:41] haven't even had time to rest their HP yet
[22:41] and they delayed a single turn about 5-6 turns ago, moving towards us instead of towards
DR for one turn after Sidon
[22:41] So it really is all over if they don't attack
[22:41] At least they haven't sent the save yet...
[22:41] yes, i asked them to hold off
[22:41] Do you think there's any chance of convincing them to attack?
[22:41] and i'm not sure Paddy supports this decision
[22:41] * Beta has joined #babembassy
[22:41] i haven't seen him on yet
[22:42] Hello!
[22:42] Greetings.
[22:42] * snoopy369 sets mode: +o Beta
[22:42] Thank you.
[22:42] haha mIRC makes me lazy
[22:42] It seems Euphorica has been in contact with BOH
[22:42] yessir
[22:42] Sorry for the delay gents.
[22:42] no prob
[22:42] is the cat okay?
[22:42] Still waiting. They can't get a urine sample. 
[22:42] ahh
[22:43] what is the issue?
[22:43] And he is the one who slleps beside the computer so I am lonely.
[22:43] awww
[22:43] * snoopy369 wonders if Rhoth is still up with his little one as well
[22:43] Pee-ing where he shouldn't. Not sure if its physical or bevaioural.
[22:43] ohh
[22:43] true
[22:44] anywho
[22:44] I spoke for a frustrating hour and something with Ljube
[22:45] his point of view, ultimately, and i'm guessing at least some of BoH's, is that attacking
Antioch would be a mistake, so they are pulling back from it
[22:45] and indeed are pulling back entirely until Chivalry is completed (30+ turns from now).
[22:46] Ljube personally didn't understand our frustration with Chrisius' post, of course,
although that doesn't shock me
[22:46] We have intelligence as to the precise nature of troops inside Antioch, and are of the
opinion, based on odds and HPs, that they'd have around a 50-60% chance of success at antioch
[22:47] as such, we believe they need to do it - the damage it would do, and the troops that
would be lost, justify it
[22:47] Agreed.
[22:47] and furthermore, they committed to doing so in the past, and that is why we moved as we
did - losing the bulk of our forces in the process.
[22:47] You have every right to be upset. It only cost us 4 horsemen.
[22:48] hehe
[22:48] I'm not sure if they're going to back down or not
[22:48] it probably comes down to Paddy
[22:48] Did Ljube understand the points you were trying to make Snoopy?
[22:48] So, you tried explaining the whole sacrifice part?
[22:48] hehe
[22:48] Yes, what was his response?
[22:48] Ljube is ... ljube.
[22:49] The entire team is a bit obtuse.
[22:49] He does have a point, in that simply saying 'we lost units, so you should too' is stupid.
And not what i'm saying, of course.
[22:49] Of course.
[22:49] We're saying that we sacrificed the units to get them the best chance to destroy antioch,
and they should take it.
[22:49] If it truly is across the 50% line...
[22:49] It's not simply losing units too.
[22:49] It's around there
[22:49] i haven't calculated the numbers precisely
[22:49] maybe they wanted you to be weakened, just throwing that out, being Devils advocate....
[22:49] there are as we said 2 catapults, 7 units with def 2 and 2 units with def 1
[22:50] ljube claims 21 units, i do not know the precise makeup
[22:50] and not all full streinth, either
[22:50] yes
[22:50] the immortals average 3hp
[22:50] some have 2, some 4
[22:50] nay, all have 3 or 4 but more have 3
[22:50] and likely, sone not even forted, as they must have just gotten there
[22:51] well, do they fort the turn they hit F?
[22:51] A "Fortify All" doesn't do it?
[22:51] i forget if they have to wait a turn to count or not
[22:51] not if they have 0 MP left, i know thta
[22:51] but i forget if it actually counts or not if there's <1 MP left
[22:51] i think it does, in which case they could be all forted
[22:52] but regardless, from my recollection the total def they could have is 6, yes?
[22:52] +50% +50% +100% from 2, or 6
[22:52] What's the city size again?
[22:52] it hass walls
[22:52] If it's walled on a hill that's +100%
[22:52] Otherwise just +50% for the wall | |
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06-02-2005 07:40
