06-02-2005 07:42									#1
	FA: Ankh-Morpork Got spare money?

This is the Ankh-Morpork FA thread. Please post any communications from/to the former Team 4 here.

	31-03-2005 12:44									#2
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And AM found us. Everyone should have received the note from ormuzd, regarding peeking into U2 from the (iron) hill and the offer of HBR.

Here's our reply:

G'day AM,

As you wiill see soon, U2 is guarded. An archer has been produced just this turn. Euphorica has been researching HBR and will finish it nexxt turn, so it's not beneficial to us to trade for it.

Do you use MSN?

McM,
Euphorica

	21-04-2005 00:43									#3
	Remove this text

Todor says:
as already everyone knows BOH have back stabbed us
I guess you already know what will we ask from you
could you enlighten me about your relations with them?
you are much closer to them
McMeadows says:
I can guess you want us to help you out.
Todor says:
actually we are already hopelessly behind
McMeadows says:
Exactly, we're close to them, and have you met our other neighboor?
Todor says:
with one city and two workers captured you could imagine
no, we have only contact wit DR I think
are you in war with them?
McMeadows says:
that's our other neighboor
Todor says:
we know the locations of every other team
we have contacts with all teams
but still didn't find DR
McMeadows says:
south of us
Todor says:
our warrior is to the north
McMeadows says:
So we're kinda cornered, there's nothing there, only sea
Todor says:
the same situation with us and every other team I guess
being back stabbed we wanted two things:
McMeadows says:
With BOH and DR as 2 neighboors, we're not able to make a move
Todor says:
1 warn you to not trust any single word of BOH
we will talk with DR too
McMeadows says:
Haven't you had a word with DR yet?
Todor says:
2. to give you some information which you could find useful and do us a favor
Todor says:
we are talking with them but only tech ageements
we will try to convince everyone so that we damage their relations BOH as most as possible
the information is that there is significant army of BOH in our near our territory
McMeadows says:
Sofar our relation with BOH has been friendly
Todor says:
this means you could try to archer rush them
McMeadows says:
More friendly than with DR
Todor says:
so were ours until the last turn
we were "their great friends"
"setting mutual watch posts"
etc.
McMeadows says:
What is that talk about you harrassing their settlers?
Todor says:
and at one time all their warriors were near us and, of curse, attacked us
nothing
let me explain this too
maybe I should post it in the forum? good idea
at the beginning we were exploring with one warrior
their scout appeared from nowhere and poped out a hut near our borders
how could you react to this? we left it pass to keep the good relations
Todor says:
after this we approached their border and they started complaining and request to move away
we did, again
while the warior was wonder near their border (I think 2 ties away) they popped a settler and founded a city just at the tile of our warrior
we moved away
shortly after this we discovered you
McMeadows says:
hmmm, I can't blame them for popping huts
They are expansionistic
that's what they need to do
at better odds than you can
Todor says:
usually you don;t pop huts near the borders of someone else, do you?
McMeadows says:
haha... you do mate
DR did with us
and can't blame them, how unfortunate it was
they popped barbarians 4 tiles from our capital
we didn't pop that hut ourselves just beacause we didn't want to have barbs harrassing our workers and cities
Todor says:
we didn't do this with babylon
however, this is not so important
McMeadows says:
indeed
Todor says:
as you can see we were as much tolerant to BOH as possible
and they were all the time paranoid and at the end stabbed us
if you decide not to attack them be very, very careful
they are really deep role playing and you'll be likely their next target
Todor says:
but I think you'll have no better opportunity to stab them
McMeadows says:
if not the target of DR
Todor says:
just be sure DR will not this to you too
McMeadows says:
I don't trust those DR-players
Todor says:
withtheir slow pace of play you could hope for "out of game factors" to preventthis
McMeadows says:
I'm sorry but I'm afraid Euphorica can't help you out. We're a bit between the two biggest agressors
Todor says:
we could together to turn the one's attention in the other direction
and you'll use the situation between us and BOH
I think you are more skillful in diplomacy than us
and with your advices we could do it
we will not say anything to DR so that they have any suspisouces about your intentions towards BOH
Todor says:
krill has just joined
McMeadows says:
sticky situation
Kevin says:
You have no idea...
Todor says:
we expected it
but were catched in the right moment
just founded two cities
and lost already the one
Kevin says:
The other is sfe, and it has given us horses.
you know what that means...
war charioits
McMeadows says:
I tried to explain ormuzd that we're in between DR and BOH and therefore don't feel all that comfortable risking having 1 take our back door while we attack the other through the front door
Kevin says:
What i was thinking of was not an outright attack
Todor says:
and I proposed that we all try to convince DR to turn their attention in other direction
Kevin says:
Immortals are the one thing that Numidians fear, it is true...
Todor says:
immortals are bad
Kevin says:
What i was thinking of was that if BOH came at us with a largish stack of Archers, you could hit them.
Todor says:
If I was Persia I could be glad to have a nation between me and the keshiks
McMeadows says:
war chariots? Are they any good?
We're not really in between, more in a traingle
Kevin says:
aagaiist an archer rush, with minimal speaars, theey are great.
Kevin says:
They retreat
McMeadows says:
aha...
Kevin says:
so we d't haave to spend as many shields.
Annd they cost the same as an archer, with the extra movement...you get the piicture?
McMeadows says:
ok
immortals worry me more than those Mongolians
Todor says:
WC are great, no doubt
McMeadows says:
I can't remember which civ you're playing
Todor says:
egypt
McMeadows says:
special war chariots isn't it?
Todor says:
one of the best civs and we succeeded to get struck in the begining
McMeadows says:
now I have the total picture
warrior rush if I read it correctly
Kevin says:
are you playing as china?
McMeadows says:
yps,.. China
we're trying to survive the first age
Kevin says:
as soon as you have Riiders, goodbye DR...
McMeadows says:
if there's still anything left of Euphorica by that time
Kevin says:
well, Ii thik that there iis one thiing that wr can agree on...
McMeadows says:
we've just been sitting on the iron of DR, but they wanted us off when they founded a new city next to it
Kevin says:
sam thiing that BOH did to us
McMeadows says:
so now immortals will be there soon
Kevin says:
why did you not archer rush them?
McMeadows says:
like when?
Kevin says:
stupiid questioin, really.
about now
McMeadows says:
they have been civcling around us, mapping our territory and future cities
they had almost taken an undefended city
we've been lucky there
but still., I don't trust them for a bit...
Todor says:
fine so, we could agree to this
we will give you information if BOH sends more troops towards us and you'll have in mind we want them dead
no matter the time, just to be not the last survivors
one other proposal?
if we send you some gold to rush swords?
Kevin says:
no problem
Todor says:
we will turn off our research for some time
Kevin says:
we are tlking about 15-25gpt
McMeadows says:
We're getting there where I need to get some back-up from the team. I'll post on this issue...
Kevin says:
again, no problem
McMeadows says:
allrighty... either me or snoopy should get back to you soon.
Todor says:
yes, of course
Todor says:
you should discuss this in your team


McMeadows says:
I appreciate your commitment in keeping the game going with just the 2 of you
Kevin says:
aalso, i doubt we will play the save until tomorrow
Todor says:
the stupid thing about MSN is that you can't leave messages while the other is offline
McMeadows says:
I understand you need some time to get some diplo going
Todor says:
it's fun - belive me

	29-04-2005 03:58									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

McMeadows says:
nobody has commented to your proposal yet. And you seem to be alone now.
Krill says:
yah, time for bed. it's my birthday tomorrow, so I'm having a party at school. Havee to be up early to organize it.
McMeadows says:
Congrats
Krill says:
thanks
McMeadows says:
'cause it's your birthday overhere now
How many candles?
Krill says:
17

..

McMeadows says:
What about discussing the deal through next turn?
Krill says:
maths?
McMeadows says:
buys a little time... It's not really urgent at the time. Maths indeed
Krill says:
Ormuzd is more than capable in handling the deal
McMeadows says:
He's not around either now and I haven't got any team mates to discuss with either
Krill says:
if you want to barter now I can stay up a while
McMeadows says:
Nah... I'd rather get it done next turn. Let us EU see what we can get ya for your birthday and you lteach us some maths
Krill says:
but if you want to wait for your teammates Ormuzd can handle it over the weekend
McMeadows says:
perfect

...

McMeadows says:
I'll give ya a birthday present... some intel:
8 tiles due south from where your warrior is now (in our territory) is DR territory. So you'll understand our worries.
Krill says:
Thanks. I'll reciprocate. BOH aren't doing well in the war. they have not managed to damage a single unit. so we ane only one settler and two workers behind. We can recover. That heelps you 'cos BOH don't get a cheaap FP core...
McMeadows says:
Didn't they take a city?
Krill says:
that was the settler.
McMeadows says:
Doesn't seem to be all that bad. I had thought you were a few turns from distinction
Krill says:
depends. if BOH have a stack of archers hidden in the FOW, we may be. We were lucky we had shields stored for other projects we could change to miliitary builds. Watch Home in F11. as soon as we start poprushing in there, then we are toast.
McMeadows says:
size 4 now
what's FOW?
Krill says:
fog of war

	30-04-2005 01:32									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

every act of diplomacy looms the act of back stabbing

is this why we see no BOH units ?

	30-04-2005 06:21									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You make a valid point Platypus...

	08-06-2005 04:29									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Todor says:
DR has asked very politely to move our warrior out of their territory. they have founded a city towards your lands - Sidon
McMeadows says:
We have been aware of Sidon\
Todor says:
our warrior is currently on position 63 from Sidon over a mountain (with a vision to the city). he has to move north, just between you and them. would it be a problem?
McMeadows says:
63 is fine. if you can provide us with some intel it would even be perfect
Todor says:
but we need to move the warrior out of there. and the route is between Sidon and Nirvana and after this between Sidon and U2. I wanted to make a synchro for your troop movement
McMeadows says:
with 63 you're out of DR territory..!
Todor says:
yes, but we have a very good view and I think they don't like the idea
McMeadows says:
so why do you have to move?
Todor says:
the warrior stays there two turns already. first thing - would it be a problem the movement of our warrior? Aqua said there was a stack of Doom and I think it could be yours. or just the next lie from them
McMeadows says:
Aqua and Moonbars have been shitting me over them being in neutral territory as they putted it and we not being allowed to say anything about it
Aqua might be right about the stack
Todor says:
I really hope you'll teach them a lesson
McMeadows says:
but why don't you just stay? he can't afford going to war with you
Todor says:
I think I'll do exactly this
McMeadows says:
he's at war with BOH and EU now
Todor says:
yes, this could be their third enemy a little bit too much
McMeadows says:
just start discussion with him and explain that the warrior is taking a break in neutral territory... no claimed mountain
Todor says:
I suppose the movement of our warrior would be a problem for you
Krill says:
McM, something else that you might want to think about.
McMeadows says:
doesn't seem to be a problem if you move...
Krill says:
If we stay at piece with DR, we can establish an embassy, and spy on cites for you
Todor says:
alright, thanks. if we start move, we will inform you as we always did
McMeadows says:
But you could just as well stay... Juice up the game...You're no threat with a warrior on a mountain
Todor says:
about the inteligence you asked. what kind of inteligence would you like? we could spy a city
but we need to build an embassy first
Krill says:
Only problem is that it costs alot of gold, and we need every penny right now.
Todor says:
and this means we will require lot of gold to expect Sidon for example
McMeadows says:
We have no money available to support spying, but We'd be interested in what units you have in sight
Todor says:
we could give it to you, but we would like to have something in exchange for the information. gold is not everything. you'll have 24 hours to discuss if you wish and we will send you the information before rhot makes the actual moves
I'm online almost whole day
I could even report the turn was sent tomorrow sometimes giving you extra time if you need it
McMeadows says:
We have not much to offer for intel. If you want to help us, we're happy to receive info on the whereabouts of DR troops
Furthermore I would like to urge you to stay on your mountain or else move over the hills: 11, that will just enhance your view. It's neutral territory and DR can't allow themselves to have you as an enemy as well...

end of conversation due an inbound phone call for me...

	09-06-2005 00:55									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

From ormuzd by PM a few minutes ago...

quote: You are the turn player, so you would use the information we ar giving to you. We expect that your team would think about a compensation like discount in a future trade, or trading a luxury, or returning a favor. As I said to McMeadows gold is not everything. Two turns ago Sidon had one veteran immortal and two horsemen south and southwest of Grog (Grog was all the time on the mountain). Previous turn Sidon had only a Horseman - the one who was over the hills. Sidon is occupied by a veteran spearman named Tropical Fish (?) I have seen your forces and I really wish you good luck beating DR. Ormuzd a member of Ankh-Morpork

And my response...

quote: Thanks ormuzd. I'll post this in our forum and McM will likely get back to you to talk about future compensation. Rhoth

	09-06-2005 16:18									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

All in all, as I have told Ormuzd and Krill before, we have nothing to offer... a reduced price for a tech??

I was not available last night when they tried to contact me..

	09-06-2005 20:34									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

A reduced price works for me. It's not great information, but it's good to know.

	17-06-2005 20:04									#11
	1425 BC Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

McMeadows says:
How's AM doing? Has Aqua allready asked you to join in against BOH & EU?
Todor says:
he told we will discuss matters with moonbars and I can't discuss our threaties with third parties, but I could hear your proposal if you have any
McMeadows says:
Hmm I was thinking you would have laughed him off...
Todor says:
why? I did not say he has proposed anything nor I have accepted or denied it
McMeadows says:
For 1, since you seemed to have been enjoyingt the show sofar, front row seat
Todor says:
we want eternal peace and harmony. yes, but there is no show
McMeadows says:
We sleep better without immortals wandering around...
BOH just burnt Sidon to the ground
Todor says:
we are only wasting turns with grog
I'll publish his biography one day
Sidon was nothing
McMeadows says:
As long as there are that many immortals in our face, we don't need to move...
Todor says:
but if they burn their iron city the things are already bad
McMeadows says:
BOH will burn it all if those immortals stay there
McMeadows says:
bad?
Todor says:
what do youwinif BOH take their cities?
are youallies?
I start to feel so st*pid asking you to go against BOH some time ago
McMeadows says:
why? We felt DR was way more dangerous. Those players with that much potential power... as our closest neighboors. Tossing in the extra arrogance of Moon and Aqua...
Todor says:
I know Aqua, I had no business with Moonbars
I was asking about something else
McMeadows says:
asking me or Aqua?
Todor says:
anyway, I have to leave now
but I hope we will talk later
McMeadows says:
was hoping to discuss tech trading
Todor says:
we shall

	18-06-2005 02:43									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'm not sure I want us to trade Construction around. There's not really anything to be had - Monarchy, oooh, or Republic, more oooh - and I don't think I would like people who are realistically next in line (LB, AM) to be our enemies to get Feudalism any sooner than they have to ...

The only thing I'd want to trade for, would be a significant GPT (I'm talking 8+ gpt) that would stifle their research ability significantly... or a strategic resource, but we are fine on those ...

	18-06-2005 02:46									#13
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There is also the option of trading for future tech points. I've used that in the past. It's something of a gamble sometimes though, if the party you traded with decides to go to war with you instead (a la Beta in Random Random, but I gave him a bunch of crap about that afterward. )

	18-06-2005 03:24									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

But I'm not sure we're going to trail in tech at any time in the future ... and unlike PTWDG1, where it lasted a much longer time, i'm not sure this game will last very long. Certainly not without going to war with half the board ... and we already have a tech alliance with our co-tech leader ...

	18-06-2005 03:30									#15
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No what I mean is the option of trading to them now, and then in a future trade deduct the cost of the tech we give them now from the cost of the tech they're giving us then.

Alternately I also asked for luxury options (i.e. 20 turns of a luxury when we demand it, or 40, 60, etc.) That was especially useful for Vox as we didn't have any luxury items on Voxtavia. It's not quite as useful here as we have furs, ivory, gems (when we settler near DR) and the trade with BOH.

The idea behind all of this is of course to get them trading with us rather than trading with others for the same thing.

	18-06-2005 04:04									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I know, rhoth. My point is, the future value of said things is far less than the current value of construction not being held by them ... consider:

(Value of Future Lux/Tech)*(1-risk of future war) * (1-chance of developing such tech/lux independently) >?< (Value of denying construction)-(Value of denying other civs trade value by construction)

I consider the latter term much higher:
1) I think that risk of future war is high
2) I think we will develop necessary techs ourselves
3) Value of denying construction to others is high in my mind - we want to hold off others getting Feudalism as long as possible IMO ...

But that's just my opinion. And it does have something to do with BOH's proclivity to do the same trades ...

	18-06-2005 04:08									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Consider also that once our deal is done then three of the six teams will have construction. One of our allies will surely trade it to LB and A-M unless we can get them both to hold off on that. If we can get them to hold off (possibly with a 20 or 30-turn no-trade clause put on construction during our deal) then we might as well seek to trade it or we lose it's value when the others trade it.

	18-06-2005 06:52									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

Posted a conversation with Paddy in the BOH thread (well will in a sec )

Essentially, after he gave me some info, I agree with you now. Apparently currency is already out, so construction will probably also be soon - so we might as well do it.

Also, will do the trade with Babs.

	18-06-2005 07:10									#19
	1400 BC Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Heya - The Euphoriscian Intelligence Group is interested to know what AM would be willing to trade for Construction, as we currently possess such technology and would like to trade it. Our interests are: 1) Luxuries - future 20-turn luxury option(s). 2) Future tech credits - particularly specific techs (ie, credit towards invention or something like that, that we'd know not to research in exchange for knowing we'd have an option on it). 3) GPT or straight gold In that order, probably. We'd have to be confident that such luxury options would be guaranteed - ie, within 3-5 turns of notice, you'd be able to guarantee us a luxury (that we do not at the time have). What are your thoughts? -Snoopy369, EIG Commander

	18-06-2005 08:06									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 Posted a conversation with Paddy in the BOH thread (well will in a sec ) Essentially, after he gave me some info, I agree with you now. Apparently currency is already out, so construction will probably also be soon - so we might as well do it. Also, will do the trade with Babs.

They all see it my way inevitably.

	12-07-2005 14:59									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

ormuzd says:
we have investigated Antioch
ormuzd says:
it costed 73 gold
McMeadows says:
that will be appreciated and rewarded

	13-07-2005 01:46									#22
	1250 BC Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

ormuzd says:
the facts are showing it is very likely the babylonians got feudalism
McMeadows says:
which facts?
ormuzd says:
there are two scientific teams, both of them in the medievals. one has feudalism. if it was DR, they should have pikes in Antioch, but there are only unfortified spears
McMeadows says:
why would 1 have feudalism? why not mono or engineering?
ormuzd says:
because its cost is discounted. oh, I should have nottold you - you are competition
McMeadows says:
wow... you keep an eye on things
ormuzd says:
we keep eye on every aspect of the game. although we are only two. the game is very intensive now and it is a folly to stay uninformed. I think the screenshot included BOH's troops and some Persian on the hills SW of Antioch. it is a little bonus
McMeadows says:
Why did you ask me if you'd already known that Babs got feudalism..?
ormuzd says:
because only one of them has feudalism
McMeadows says:
why only 1?
ormuzd says:
the odds of the game, I don't know. I would like that both of them had the monotheism
McMeadows says:
why?
ormuzd says:
because it is the least usable tech of the three IMO. Actually only we and babylon are religious - to use the cheap cathedrals
McMeadows says:
for us it is required to get to chivalry. What is AM reseraching now?
ormuzd says:
we were researching republic but we are debating if we should abandon it
McMeadows says:
hmmm I read somewhere DR was onto it, but I might be mistaken
McMeadows says:
You seem to be up to date with construction
ormuzd says:
they have researched it IMO
McMeadows says:
we would have wanted to include it in your excellent intelligence
ormuzd says:
we have entered medievals this or previous turn
McMeadows says:
It would be unfortunate to study the same techs
ormuzd says:
we are making research who is researching waht. with the world separated on two there is another level of strategy
McMeadows says:
as in you try to benefit from both sides?
ormuzd says:
if possible. but the first goal to keep the pace. the peace is not a problem for our corner yet
McMeadows says:
will be alright for a long while I guess. the DR war will last quite some more time. with the Horde from the one side and babylon on the other we are feeling a pressure already
ormuzd says:
I doubt
McMeadows says:
They're both very much occupied
...

McMeadows says:
100 gold coming your way. thanks for the intelligence effort
ormuzd says:
thanks
McMeadows says:
So you're happy with our offer?
ormuzd says:
yes, of course. we will gain27 gold
McMeadows says:
indeed. we had hoped you would acknowledge our gratitude with this offer....
ormuzd says:
it is a good boost for us, especially after we change governments
McMeadows says:
what is the new government? monarchy?
ormuzd says:
yes. republic is quite inpropriate at the moment
McMeadows says:
seems to be indeed

...

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