02-05-2005 06:30									#31
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I agree. Let's quote his own words at him.

	02-05-2005 23:29									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Aqua says:
g'day mate
McMeadows says:
G'day as well...
how're u going?
Aqua says:
I'd be a lot better if you didn't have 3 Archers right outside our territory
McMeadows says:
that's C3CDG, I may assume a game doesn't keep you awake at night
Aqua says:
no it doesn't
but that doesn't answer my concern
do you have aggressive intent?
McMeadows says:
We're in neutral territory
We might just be annoying you
Aqua says:
you don't need 3 Archers to annoy us
McMeadows says:
works well doesn't it?
Aqua says:
then I take it you are annoying us for no reason?
that's not a very friendly neighbour
after we've been so lenient with you
a harmless exploring Warrior is VERY different to 3 threatening Archers, wouldn't you agree?
who are certainly not there to explore
McMeadows says:
Hmm as you had noticed at acertein point, we and in particular I was prety much annoyed by DR.
Aqua says:
and our Warrior is now gone, by the way, as we promised
so I ask again....do you have aggressive intent?
McMeadows says:
I don't see any reason to explain our pressence in free territory. I've been lectured about this recently.
Aqua says:
and I would ask you to observe the ethical principle established, that you declare war before entering our territory
no commitment to that? I see
McMeadows says:
WHatever has been agreed upon concerning the C3CDG will be honoured
Aqua says:
our warrior was exploring in the natural course of business. You have intentionally moved 4 units over the last 5 turns specifically to threaten us. That is a VERY different situation, and you cannot deny that!
McMeadows says:
Dr has also tresspassed without a declaration of war
Off course we were happy you didn't
Aqua says:
ah, but we made it clear we would not attack
McMeadows says:
Uhmm, made that clear AFTER we had opened the save
I'm sorry mate, it's you turn to wonder what's going to happen. At the moment we're in neutral territory and we don't need to explain ourselves
Aqua says:
fair enough
so let me just make this clear
if your units step into our territory, with or without a war declaration, they shall be destroyed
we have the numbers, and we will act if required
so there is no "wondering", except whether you will be foolish enough to do so
McMeadows says:
that's a wondering to me
Aqua says:
do what you will.....but the clever players on your team will realise that it is too late for a weak Archer rush
McMeadows says:
archer rush?
I've never performed an archer rush before. I always wondered, when to play one and moreover how many archer would classify such a rush.
Aqua says:
one Archer is a rush if it's early enouh!
ask Rhoth and Wittlich.....I'm sure they've done them!
McMeadows says:
I attacked Paddy 3050 BC with 1 Jag warrior in a game.... Jag rush?
Aqua says:
lol
sure
are Rhoth and Wittlich active by the way?
McMeadows says:
The dissapointment was to take out the warrior outside his city on my first movement and not being able to take the undefended city in my second, as the game claimed I was not allowd to attack twice in 1 turn with that unit
Rhot has been the most active back ground player, commenting on most turn reports
Wittlich is more disant and seems to ne commenting when he thinks it's required.
Aqua says:
you have a pretty good team I must say
probably on a par with us
btu we don't have enough contributors
McMeadows says:
you mean people in your team?
active
Aqua says:
yeh
McMeadows says:
Moon is on an extended leave
Aqua says:
yep
Sabre is too busy
and Trip is too tied up with Civ4

……………….

Aqua says:
so...you gonna attack us?
McMeadows says:
... you're not wondering you say...
Aqua says:
no, I'm bloodthirsty and hope you enter our territory so we can carry out our warning
McMeadows says:
What do you have in mind,.. you could make it tempting
Aqua says:
as in?
hey, have you been able to get into Apolyton tonight?
McMeadows says:
if you're going to attack us with a warrior only it would be tempting to tresspass
Aqua says:
huh?
why you say Warrior?
McMeadows says:
apoly has been unreachable all day
Aqua says:
ok
McMeadows says:
warrior beacause that is the weakest unit in the game
Aqua says:
oh, ok.....then yes, we will only attack with a Warrior
McMeadows says:
lol
Aqua says:
oh, you don't believe me?
you must think we have stronger units then
perhaps we have 20 Warrriors waiting!
McMeadows says:
A horseman has been spotted
Aqua says:
oh dear, not a Horseman!
those Horsemen are a serious pain in the arse@!
but one shouldn't trouble your Archers too much
no comment?
_____________________________________________

By that time I had leftt to go to the shop.

I'm curious about what the toughts ar on actually staying where we are. We can send our next wave through the mountains straight towards Inner Sanctum. We'd be our own decoy. Our first objective: no iron for DR has been accomplished.
If they're really cooking up something, they've had the most impressive deal with LB. Trade iron for something, luring us in thinking they don't have iron available. I don't expect this.
BOH is building up troops to assist us, if required. Babs are not to be expected within 15-20 turn, if to be expected at all...

	03-05-2005 00:33									#33
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by McMeadows Aqua says: you have a pretty good team I must say probably on a par with us

No inferiority complex from him I must say.

quote: I'm curious about what the toughts ar on actually staying where we are. We can send our next wave through the mountains straight towards Inner Sanctum. We'd be our own decoy. Our first objective: no iron for DR has been accomplished.

That's an interesting thought, primarily because they haven't hooked their iron up yet (so our objective is at this point accomplished as you said). We'd obviously know when they are about to do so because of our units stationed there. The obvious plus to waiting...more units of our own that we can bring to bear on them. The obvious negative...they will have more units as well, including horsemen which actually scare me more than their potential immortals. Immortals are easier to deal with than horsemen because of their movement.

The other thing we need to think about is the absence of our alliance partners. If we start a war and they don't show up (and DR's allies do) then we're in trouble.

Ultimately I think I lean toward camping on their borders rather than attacking right away. Make them sweat a bit about our intentions while we build our military.

BTW, I highly recommend we hook up the horse and start building our own horsemen soon to complement the swords. I confess to being a movement freak. I want 2-move units as much for home defense as anything, but they are also excellent for flanking maneuvers, my personal favorite way of attack.

	03-05-2005 02:34									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sure, hook up the horses. I don't want to attack with them, i think swordsmen will be better now. I would definitely like to use a road also at some point.

I'm fine hanging around in the vicinity (in the corner maybe) drawing defense to there, and then attacking inner sanctum from the other side with the swordsmen. But, as soon as they move a worker to the iron, we need to move to cut it off instantly - even if it is too soon for the swordsmen.

I doubt they are connected to LB. We'd see the road (and cut it easily!).

	03-05-2005 18:25									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hooking up the horses will also help get our swords down to the action quicker, without making that intention too obvious.

Having played Moonbars before, a favorite tactic of his is to send 3 or 4 horses somewhere where you least expect them so as to draw your troops and cause as much damage as possible until they've been used up. We need to make sure they don't pull this on us - keep that warrior on the mountain perhaps.

	04-05-2005 21:35									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

Aqua says:
I see your units are still lurking
McMeadows says:
Hmmmm what was it a wise man once told me?
NEUTRAL TERRITORY
indeed that was it... sounds great, doesn't it?
Aqua says:
yep, sure does. Of course, as long as you don't hinder another civ from their expansion or development plans
McMeadows says:
Matey... don't ya change da meaning as it suits ya...
Aqua says:
nope, not at all. As I said before, a harmless exploring warrior is very different to 4 archers and a spear. I know it, you know.....but for your own political reasons you won't admit it
McMeadows says:
That harmless warrior was quite disturbing to us as has been mentioned. That harmless warrior even triggered barbarians almost next to our capital. I don't blame ya, but it certainly was disturbing and hindering
Aqua says:
It wasnt' that warrior that you were worried about....it was the one to the north, that you were using to "negotiate" you leaving our iron territory. You twist meanings so easily
McMeadows says:
Same one matey,.. it has been travelling around our territory for quite a while. Being harmless as you said. Just like we're being harmless
Aqua says:
then you've got rocks for brains, if you seriously think 4 Archers are harmless compared to one Warrior. Why is it that you Europeans always refuse to face facts and respond to logic, but prefer to live in your own little versions of reality?
andydog has been added to the conversation.
McMeadows says:
Aqua, I bring you more brains from Eu (rope/phorica). Maybe Andy can understand it better
andydog says:
hello mate, we finally meet!
Aqua says:
how nice, g'day
McMeadows says:
Aqua can you please explain the issue?
Aqua says:
you need to bring this Dutchman into line. he's away with the pixies
McMeadows says:
I'm probabbly not capable to do so in the right way
andydog says:
there's no bringing this duchman into line! lol
Aqua says:
Lol. yeh, I suspected
andydog says:
i understand our archers are causing a bit of bother
Aqua says:
oh, I wouldn't call it bother. but we're not impressed at their presence and they wouldn't be wise to linger
andydog says:
why is that then? You gonna see them off with horsies or something?
Aqua says:
oh, well your friend McMeadows seems to think that our exploring Warrior skirting your borders has the same impact as 4 Archers and a Spear adjacent to our only Iron resource. of course, I'm sure you understand the error in his logic
andydog says:
i understand the issue to be more along the lines of units wandering about boarders in general, causing nusance and annoyance. I can understand how 4 archers compared with 1 warrior would bother you more however lol
Aqua says:
ah, I see you don't understand logic either then. Oh, how nice
andydog says:
i understand the logic
Aqua says:
seems euphorica has at least one thinking person then
andydog says:
is it true that you were hindering our exansion?
Aqua says:
and now we've established that....your reason for lingering is? us, hindering your expansion? tell me, how many turns did we linger?
andydog says:
whatever the number, you were giving us grief, not to mention a few diplomatic jerk offs, and we are in neurtral territory. So have a few tuggs yourself lol
McMeadows says:
for the numbers, the warrior came into sight at about turn 6 and left being a nuisance around turn 35
Aqua says:
ah rubbish
andydog says:
that's quite a long time isn't it
Aqua says:
he quickly left your territory and then merely continued exploring, as warriors from all other civs have done
McMeadows says:
It's up to us to decide if its presence is a nuisance (in neutral territory) if you are doing so as well
Aqua says:
but no matter.....you've expended a lot of potential MP in making your pathetic point. leave them all there for all we care. it matters not
andydog says:
doesn't matter to us either. perhaps they should stay for a bit. they enjoy the scenery
Aqua says:
no problem
McMeadows says:
Maybe you could point us the quickest way to LB...
Aqua says:
we shall provide them with victuals for their journey. LB?
McMeadows says:
We might wanna have a look there as well
Aqua says:
Lost boys? where are they?
McMeadows says:
Shoot, he doesn't know where LB is either Andy I thought they would be on your other side
Aqua says:
nah, must be to the west
McMeadows says:
can't we cross your lands to get there quickly?
Aqua says:
go ahead and try. You've already been told what will happen if you do
McMeadows says:
Politely asking...
Aqua says:
ah, we appreciate you asking politely then
andydog says:
i think he means no, mcmeadows
McMeadows says:
I never quite grasp what he implies
Aqua says:
you guys are pretty clever
andydog says:
so then we'll wander around the outside then? is that okay aqua?
McMeadows says:
I'm happy you're here Andy, I would have thought he was inviting me to do so..
andydog says:
of course this would mean going very close to your iron, which i'm sure you're itching to hook up. I hear that immortals and iron go quite nicely together
Aqua says:
well as you've said, you're quite welcome to explore anywhere in neutral territory. Though I'm sure other civs may have the same puzzled reaction as us.....as in, what are 4 Archers doing exploring in a stack?
andydog says:
well i wouldn't say their exploring. We've already explored all around there
Aqua says:
oh, so what are they doing then?
andydog says:
as i said, enjoying the scenery of DR. Although they do complain a bit at the quality of the women.
Aqua says:
yes, we are a bit embarrassed about that
andydog says:
shocking, it really is. Pity you don't have any cows around lol
Aqua says:
but wew have some very cute young men
andydog says:
our archer boys mentioned them. frisky fellas indeed. they had to see them off with sticks.
Aqua says:
well, they certainly take care of their horses )
andydog says:
lol. well as much fun as this is, i best be getting back to the affairs of the state. it's been a pleasure.
Aqua says:
ah, then no commitment to withdraw? so be it
andydog says:
and regards to you from our archers.
andydog has left the conversation.
McMeadows says:
Withdraw? we're in neutral territory. I really don't get it
Aqua says:
up to you
Aqua says:
as I said. go wandering around the world with 4 archers and see how others react. so tell me then.....what is the real purpose of having 4 archers outside our territory? you've already said exploration is not it. so the only answer is to piss us off
McMeadows says:
wouldn't that be reason enough?
Aqua says:
thank you for an honest answer at last. I shall convey it to our other friends
McMeadows says:
haha, I thought you would blame me for asking a question in return of a question
Aqua says:
the question was revealing
McMeadows says:
You can read it as you want to read it, I do not feel obliged to explain our presence in free territory
Aqua says:
yada yada yada, same answer as usual. there is no other reason to be there. your diplomacy is so transparent it is embarrassing
McMeadows says:
I'm sorry, can't compete with your enlightened mind
Aqua says:
so I see. though not enlightened....merely logical
McMeadows says:
I've been a scientist for the last 12 years but I'm indeed thinking of chancing the objective of my occupation... Any recomendations? My logic clearly seems to have faded, but I don't seem to be very well uquipped for diplomacy either....
Aqua says:
quite right.....your logic has faded. why don't you give it one last chance. let's try a logical argument shall we? Question: what logical reason can there be for your 4 archers to be where they are?
1. To attack us?
2. To annoy us?
3. To explore?
answer?
McMeadows says:
My attorney left a note that I don't have to answer this question. You may choose an answer of your liking, or think of some more alternatives....
Aqua says:
I see, so you refuse any attempt at a rational conversation. well?
McMeadows says:
I thought it was quite reasonable and logical to apply what was teached to me before...
Aqua says:
you europeans really are corrupted aren't you? you can't even answer straight questions
McMeadows says:
You can say whatever you want, but I have not been corrupt nor will be corrupt. And there's a difference between "can" and "don't feel obliged to do so"...
Aqua says:
you can't even answer straight questions
McMeadows says:
You can say whatever you want, but I have not been corrupt nor will be corrupt. And there's a difference between "can" and "don't feel obliged to do so"...
Aqua says:
I see.....meaning, you don't feel obliged to tell the truth
McMeadows says:
Why are you so annoyed by Europeans? I presume you decend from Euro's just the same
Aqua says:
just the inability to answer straight questions truthfully, thats all. having regard to logic, of course. I mean, you claim to be a scientist. So surely you know that your answers to my questions are, from a scientific perspective, completely ludicrous and if you can't admit that, then I have difficulty giving you any respect. that's not an insult, just a fact and as a scientist, I would expect you to respect facts. well then, no response I see.. sad. just proves my point I guess. oh well
McMeadows says:
I'm sorry, had an inbound phonecall
neutral territory -> no need for explanation
That's logic provided by you yourself and I have embraced it...
Aqua says:
you haven't bothered to respond to me. you have ignored the issue. you know well that our warrior is different to your 4 archers. yet you have refused to engage me in a reasoned discussion of the point. and as a scientist, that shows a failure.
McMeadows says:
What's the difference between neutral territory and hmmm neutral territory?
Aqua says:
ok, let me spell it out for you.... will you agree to follow this?
McMeadows says:
I'm here
Aqua says:
Ok, on Civ3, it is quite normal for say a warrior to explore unknown territory in the early game, agreed? perhaps even a spearman or archer, though less usual
McMeadows says:
agreed
Aqua says:
Ok. There is therefore no need at all for 4 archers to explore in a stack. agreed?
McMeadows says:
harsh times these days
Aqua says:
agreed or not?
McMeadows says:
would seem to be on a safe side indeed
Aqua says:
sorry, please clarify. agreed? or not
McMeadows says:
I think you should take into account the game progress. As you mentioned before, early game exploring with a single unit is quite ok. Nowadays it is getting more dangerous.
Aqua says:
so you believe it is quite reasonable to explore with 4 archers?
McMeadows says:
4 archers seems to be quite safe and comfortable
Aqua says:
but you've already admitted you have explored these lands already. so you seem to admit they are not exploring. agreed?
McMeadows says:
First of all things are changing quickly these days as well, a lot of activity is going on everywhere. Second to that is that we might consider moving on. Too bad you don't know where LB are.
Aqua says:
you haven't answered my question, which is quite plain. clearly you do not wish to answer. it is a simple question. So clearly you do not wish to give the answer, which both of us know is quite obvious. it's not about "things are changing"....it's a question of whether the archers could in any way be construed as exploring. please be honourable and provide the obvious answer if you wish to retain any semblance of credibility
McMeadows says:
So you would like to know why we are there? Hmm sorry, no need to tell, neutral territory.
Aqua says:
no, I want you to answer whether 4 archers could possibly be construed as exploring in a stack, without giving a "smokescreen" answer that the world is dangerous. Is that too much to ask?
McMeadows says:
ahhh hypothetically speaking... I would add a spearman
Aqua says:
oh, so now 4 archers and a spearman exploring?
McMeadows says:
more safe, archer only have 1 defense, thefore adding a spearman increases defense. Still if barbarians show up, you have offensive power as well..
Aqua says:
oh just forget it then. You are being evasive, and we both know the answer. hence my comment about your lack of honesty. so if you cannot conduct diplomatic discussions with some honour, credibility and honesty, then we shall have to break all diplomatic channels. since we are not interested in your stupid lies
McMeadows says:
In all fairness I have not lied here...
Aqua says:
you agreed to answer my simple questions honestly, then you reneged. not answering simple questions simply is tantamount to lying
McMeadows says:
I reply in a way I feel adequate.
I can also ask you what you're building now in Inner Sanctum and call you a liar if you don't answer that simple question...
Aqua says:
no, not at all. because I can answer anything I wish and you cannot dispute my answer, unless I say something that cannot be built with current technology. on the contrary, I put to you that 4 archers and a spear cannot be exploring in a stack, particularly when you have already explored the territory, and you cannot respond with a credible answer
McMeadows says:
In which case all I have said has been true
Aqua says:
but you have said nothing. you have not said that they are exploring. nor have you said that they are not
McMeadows says:
I haven't said thay are exploring. You implied they are exploring
Aqua says:
are they exploring?
McMeadows says:
I said that they hypothetically could be exploring
Aqua says:
but we both know that hypothetically they cannot be exploring
McMeadows says:
Whatever our troops are doing there is being done in neutral territory and there is no need for explanation to any nation. They can hypothetically be exploring.
Aqua says:
they cannot and they aren't we both know that. anyway, you have singularly and repeatedly refused to conduct any meaningful honest diplomatic discussions. We therefore are breaking off diplomatic ties with the Euphoricans
McMeadows says:
If you choose not to talk to Euphorica you may do so, but don't justify that by implying we are being dishonest. I think it is you who is being dishonest with these accusations...
Aqua says:
we both know who is being evasive and dishonest, so don't try to justify your ridicukous position. you have destroyed your own credibility by your frivolous presence outside our territory and have refused to justify it in any way if your units remain, they take their own chances
McMeadows says:
There's no need to justify our presence, that's the whole issue I have been quite clear and honest on that matter and have taken the patience and time to state that several times. It is DR who has pointed out to us quite clearly that units in neutral territory are exactly that, units in neutral territory. No need for an explanation whatsoever... That's almost a quote from DR. Don't try to find an excuse for actions you might consider.
Aqua says:
don't bother trying to out any blame on me....I gave you plenty of chances to keep diplomatic channels on a reasonable level and you refused. Any consequences that may occur are on your head
McMeadows says:
In which case I take it you make this a personal matter. Maybe you'd rather talk to another representant of Euphorica..?
Aqua says:
oh no, it's nothing personal at all. I never take my in-game disputes personally....can't afford to when you're in as many games as I cam. you're my ally in Clash of the Titans for example. but I do take each game seriously and independently . I hope you understand
McMeadows says:
personally for this matter in this particular game. You question my credibility
Aqua says:
credibility in respect of what you represent on behalf of Euphorica and it's motives and objectives, yes. personal credibility, no.....there's no value in that for any of us
McMeadows says:
You have taken account for my personal credibility as a scientist
Aqua says:
well, yes....as a means to get you to respond logically of course
McMeadows says:
Should I now call you a liar and question your credibility?
Aqua says:
if you wish, but I don't think you can
McMeadows says:
Aqua says:
personal credibility, no
Aqua says:
?
McMeadows says:
McMeadows says:
You have taken account for my personal credibility as a scientist
Aqua says:
well, yes...
McMeadows says:
First a denial then you are confronted with what you said earlier and you twist your opinion. You're not straight in your answers here
Aqua says:
don't mix the game with personal feelings
McMeadows says:
Calling me a liar is quite personal. Furthermore you seem to easily bend things the way you like to see them. You do it out game, even more reason to assume you do it in game
Aqua says:
out-game? no, I don't think I do. I'm referring to this game specifically
McMeadows says:
Just pointed out to you that you doubted my personal credibility and later say you separate those things. No worries, but don't draw conclusions from the conversation if you can't even have 1 thought on that.
Aqua says:
I doubt your credibility as an emissary of Euphorica in this instance, that is all
McMeadows says:
In which case we should conclude that someone else should do this conversation with you.
Aqua says:
quite possibly. And that someone else should converse with you too if indeed, we agree to continue diplomatic discussions
McMeadows says:
That other person will report to the team in a normal fashin just like I will. No need for him to discuss with me.
Aqua says:
anyway, I'm off to bed
McMeadows says:
Snoopy is our foreign minister, Andy can be talked to as well. And I will be available to repeat my pointy as well
Aqua says:
goodnight
McMeadows says:
sleep well

__________________________________________________
_
Ok. I'm having a day off work and just had some joy in trying to frustrate Aqua. I might have been on the edge in the last bit with the personal matter. Then again, he's been quite ignorant.
btw, someone else will have to talk to Aqua next time, as he'll refuse to talk to me. I'm not credible to represent Euphoric he claims. I challenge you to keep him trying to explain his point of view longer than I did...

	04-05-2005 23:41									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

nice.

Whomever gets the onerous duty of talking to Aqua ought to have some fun.

	08-05-2005 04:12									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

lol

On other news ... circumstances required beginning the war with the archer stack. We lost one, and then beat, their horseman on the hill (poor RNG luck but oh well, we got an elite at least).

DR had started 2 workers on the iron ... and we were in a good position to do something about it. They will likely be forced to move the workers away, or else probably lose the city (it is defended by a horseman). We have kurt cobain near the iron hill, and are in a good position to stop the connection of that iron.

	12-05-2005 19:06									#39
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Aqua says:
so do the Euphoricans wish to continue this pointless war?
McMeadows says:
You could help us with some harikiri's...
Aqua says:
don't think so
oh, and please send your warrior home
McMeadows says:
we're at war and it's neutral territory as well...
Aqua says:
ah, I see. So you wish to continue the war? hoping for your turn at good RNG rolls? perhaps it was the will of the Gods
McMeadows says:
... what would you have told me if luck had chosen our side?
Aqua says:
I would have been begging for peace I expect. or pehaps, regardless of luck we may have had enough Horsies to despatch your army anyway
McMeadows says:
sorry mate... No go at that. You have been saying a few prayers when you started the counter attack
Aqua says:
perhaps. we were lucky with the spear
McMeadows says:
NO ****
Aqua says:
also lucky you took 2 archers to kill Courtney, but she was a tough bugger
McMeadows says:
NO ****
Aqua says:
ok, ok. you are superior, we admit it. you stil want to kill us then. for no real reason?
McMeadows says:
The reason isn't all that hard to think off. immortals will be knocking on our door first
Aqua says:
ok. war it is then I guess. I suppose we'll be getting a visit from your Swordsmen soon then
McMeadows says:
Hmmm our archers don't work that well anymore as it seems.
Aqua says:
it seems not. they haven't learnt to retreat. our horses have
McMeadows says:
I think we better bring a priest. it was not retreat that made the differnce

	16-05-2005 21:51									#40
	1950 BC Increase Your PM Length

Aqua says:
ah, hello my foe
McMeadows says:
hello there... do you have news of more casualties on our side?
Aqua says:
should be on your email. only a strangely sacrificed worker
McMeadows says:
has been noted.. no worries
Aqua says:
your colony, in case you haven't guessed already
McMeadows says:
just read it... apart from the warrior on the mountain, the only possibility I had in mind
Aqua says:
ok, not sure why you would build a colony there....but that's your choice I guess
McMeadows says:
The loss of your horseman will be reported after we have played our turn
Aqua says:
that is anticipated, a casualty of war
McMeadows says:
on both sides that is...
Aqua says:
depends on the RNG I guess. perhaps you will have better luck this time
McMeadows says:
I assume we will have normal statistics at work this time..
Aqua says:
as opposed to? oh, yes. sorry, RNG
McMeadows says:
indeed
Aqua says:
well perhaps we will see the first of the Euphorican Swords? and what of your supposed peace offer last turn? you clearly had no intention of peace
McMeadows says:
Would you like us to attack with a swordsman?
Aqua says:
whatever you wish, it's your prerogative
McMeadows says:
ah well... we'll have a bit of time to think it over.
Aqua says:
lol, so tell me about your fake peace offer? what was that about?
McMeadows says:
did we offer peace?
Aqua says:
yes, you did. the turn before last. we offered it back, thinking that in your situation you would offer us a sweetener. you clearly didn't agree
McMeadows says:
oh, I'm sorry, was just checking which techs DR didn't have, which we do have
Aqua says:
lol. I see. I'm sure there are many!
McMeadows says:
I probably forgot to cancel the offer, and pressed
Aqua says:
yeh, I get it. I'm so disappointed.....thought you wanted to be friends after all
McMeadows says:
Never had the impression DR was to be very friendly to us...
Aqua says:
we were never unfriendly until you declared war. anyway, off to bed

McMeadows says:
sleep well... hope you have said goodbye to Robert yet...
Aqua says:
yes, we have commenced a feast in his honour. but there will be more to replace him, never fear
McMeadows says:
good going,... his offer will be celebrated on both sides then...
Aqua says:
but they will be nastier than Horsemen, mark my words
McMeadows says:
off course, the immortals will be coming... we are not to be suprised

	09-06-2005 22:58									#41
	1550 BC Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Aqua says:
I am saying we are willing to talk peace terms. are you?
McMeadows says:
I'll post it, but I doubt there will be much support for peace. What can I add to make us more willing?
Aqua says:
add? You can add that we won't send our Immortals out to destroy you!
McMeadows says:
to the post
Aqua says:
what more could you possibly want?
McMeadows says:
just peace is nowhere good enough. And your boast with immortals isn't exactly frighening at the moment
McMeadows says:
no response?

	09-06-2005 23:03									#42
	Put an end to popups!

He's scared.

	12-06-2005 21:57									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Aqua says:
so it seems we have a stalemate
McMeadows says:
why?
Aqua says:
cos you said your army merely fortified, too cowardly to attack us apparently
McMeadows says:
indeed indeed... again we move in and get nervous when we meet the territory border
Aqua says:
Lol, oh you weren't nervous last time....you just attacked
McMeadows says:
no? how did you think the RNG was so unfavorable?
Aqua says:
meaning?
McMeadows says:
we were very unlucky, must have been poor morale within our ranks. nervous
Aqua says:
unlucky in your first Archer not beating our horse yes. ah, so your troops are more cautious this time. nevertheless...this time it had nothing to do with the RNG
McMeadows says:
hmmm how about being unlucky at the counterattack by DR and having the spearman beaten with 1 horseman..?
Aqua says:
Yes, that was a great breakthrough by our tough troops.....and mopping up the remaining archers after that was fairly easy. but they were mere Horsemen.......Immortals are a different matter altogether
McMeadows says:
Those stories frighten our men
Aqua says:
stories of immortals?
McMeadows says:
Stories of the past and stories of them immortals
Aqua says:
ah yes. then tell me, why did they bother to come all the way through the mountains if they are just going to camp there and not attack?
McMeadows says:
We didn't plan on having those immortals sitting on a mountain. they should be in the city. And us there on that mountain top... coming down in rage
Aqua says:
ah yes, I guess that was very inconsiderate of us. sorry about that . we should have just moved all our units out of the cities and let you capture them all one by one
McMeadows says:
1 or 2 wouldn't have been a show stopper. NAh... You had better spent your gold on improvements which we could use
Aqua says:
Lol, you won't take a single city.....time to give uop, you're just wasting your time
McMeadows says:
we're discussing the matter now in our forum. We're a bit divided on what's next
Aqua says:
oh are you just. you mean either die fighting, or just die?
McMeadows says:
retreat is another option
Aqua says:
it is, but it is a losers' option. why waste all that production building an army if you don't use it. what a waste
McMeadows says:
that's what we thought when we decided to move in
Aqua says:
perhaps you are thinking differently now
McMeadows says:
at least it shows we were right about the threat DR would become
Aqua says:
we only became a threat because you forced us to. we would have preferred to build improvements instead
McMeadows says:
hmmm we had thought you would pick on Euphorica first anyway, why not take the initiative ourselves
Aqua says:
we could have taken you earlier if we had wished
McMeadows says:
with that lost warrior? I think you wanted to, but your team refused
Aqua says:
Indeed. I admit we were divided. but that is the nature of a demogame. group wisdom prevailed. though later events showed that perhaps the aggressive ones in our team were correct
McMeadows says:
I was surprised you backed out
Aqua says:
perhaps.....but the fact remains that we did. so is peace a possibility? or are you too far gone for that?
McMeadows says:
out of my mind you mean?
Aqua says:
Lol. but you've been that way for some time, no?
McMeadows says:
indeed, I tranceded and am now capable to look down on myself
Aqua says:
lol
McMeadows says:
Is DR going to erase us from the mountain?
Aqua says:
so....I'm not sure what your answer was to my question whether peace is possible
McMeadows says:
Why would you want peace? isn't now the chance to settle it for once and all?
Aqua says:
so we can expand and compete against the Lost Boys, who are expanding rapidly
McMeadows says:
are they? Haven't seen much of them in any aspect of the game
Aqua says:
they are indeed
McMeadows says:
They seem to be to far for us to be a worry
Aqua says:
from you perhaps, but not from us
McMeadows says:
are they being aggressive towards you?
Aqua says:
not at the moment, no
McMeadows says:
hmm you want to throw your immortals at them?
Aqua says:
I didn't say that
McMeadows says:
Wondering why you want peace. if you're having a favorable position
Aqua says:
but it would free our immortals for.....errr...other duties
McMeadows says:
exactly... that's what I was just wondering. why? who? why not finish us?
Aqua says:
The Desolation Row has many complex plans for the future
McMeadows says:
that goes beyond the simpleminded like myself
Aqua says:
oh, sorry

	12-06-2005 22:01									#44
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

That was great McM.

I wonder if they believe that BoH won't attack them. Good for us, bad for them.

	16-06-2005 18:00									#45
	1450 BC Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

McMeadows says:
did you recover from the 2nd shock yet?
Aqua says:
well, I love a good match of wits against wits....but when 2 powerful civs team up against you from opposite directions at this stage of the game, there really is little hope. It's a shame that you all decided to dogpile us for no real good reason. After all, we never attacked anyone.
McMeadows says:
Now you know why we came through the mountains and stopped.
Aqua says:
indeed
McMeadows says:
The ability to produce immortals and at the moment the availability of that many immortals does posses a great threat that is felt by many nations. Choosing Persia is choosing a lot of power, we all know that. Don't be surprised to find nations coming easy to a joint goal in opposing you.
Our first initiative was only aimed at delaying DR's iron supply. Which, surprisingly indeed took longer than anticipated and more or less did not require us to move in. Moreover it was a good excuse to act "stupid" a second time...
Aqua says:
so now it's virtually all over, tell me.....how long have you been in alliance with the Horde to wipe us out?

(than I had to leave to cath a train)

	17-06-2005 00:59									#47
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

when do we expect total elimination of DR

	17-06-2005 07:31									#48
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

lol ... not for a bit yet I don't think, but we'll see. Probably an absolute minimum of 20-25 turns.

	13-07-2005 21:09									#49
	1250 BC Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Aqua says:
what is all that crap in the threads? getting tired of all your propaganda
McMeadows says:
my propaganda?
Aqua says:
you guys should just finish us off and get on with the game. not you specifically.....your alliance
McMeadows says:
The propaganda machine is yours
Aqua says:
yeh right. as if! we don't do propaganda, sorry. your lot is the master at it
McMeadows says:
Come on, Moon and you take every effort to undermine the TNA. your good right. no worries. but it's so much bull ****. And indeed those Babs and BOH's seem to enjoy their part
Aqua says:
well we should indeed, since it's 3 against 1 we must at least try
McMeadows says:
you're doing quite well
Aqua says:
we have survived, that is all
McMeadows says:
Eu is not really into the nonsense. we have made a few statements
Aqua says:
yes, and every one of them was quite revealing as to your hatred of the DR. Indeed, we felt we had to make a clear point of devotion towards the alliance otherwise it might go down on your propaganda
hatred is not a good word. it's a game. I and we respect the players that are DR as I have experessed before
Aqua says:
if you guys had coordinated we would have been history
McMeadows says:
We had coordinated. BOH just moves so ****ing slow
Aqua says:
perhaps it was that unbridled hatred for no good cause that disturbed your allies? I mean "hatred" as in-game. no offence taken
McMeadows says:
nah... those points we raised were quite reasuring towards Babylon
Aqua says:
it is flattering to know that others feel threatened simply from your presence in the game. but what's with Skrobism? he seemed really genuinely pissed off. were there nasty emails flying around last night?
McMeadows says:
That weird 1889 with his cease fire would have been a blow in our face. However, now it seems it's going to go that way anyway
Aqua says:
a cease fire buys us more time
McMeadows says:
I'll tell you what's happening now after things has settled, as we have discussed our losses in the massacre after that had been added to history

....

Aqua says:
there are many voices in the horde and each army is captained by its own general
McMeadows says:
I still have to see what will be the final verdict
Aqua says:
indeed, as do we
McMeadows says:
Bongo explained me they were all advisors to the Khan
Aqua says:
the supposed cease fire has come as a surprise to us too
McMeadows says:
Paddy is entitled to make the final decission
Aqua says:
and we still expect the horde to attack maybe they are hoping we would move our defenders out
McMeadows says:
weren't they already in striking position last turn?
Aqua says:
indeed they were and with the Babs distracting us, many of our troops were otherwise engaged. obviously you relationship with them has soured to the stage where they wanted to make a point?
McMeadows says:
what do you mean?
Aqua says:
well, why on earth would they back out when they seemed to have us against the wall? as I say, we do not understand either, but of course we are not complaining
McMeadows says:
I'll tell you in a later stage
Aqua says:
though perhaps it is merely a feint? ah, there have been so many lies told so far it is difficult to know who to trust any more
McMeadows says:
lies? can't remember telling you anything but the truth
Aqua says:
again, not specifically talking about you. you have always been straightforward - destroy DR !
McMeadows says:
off course we're still entitled to chance our focuss
Aqua says:
hehe. and are you interested in changing that focus now? and do you speak for Euphorica, or do Snoopy and Rhoth have different views?
McMeadows says:
Euphorica... but yet we are awaiting the results of what's happening
Aqua says:
I see, well, only time will tell I guess. all is confusion at the moment and the slow pace of the game does not help matters. too much guessing, not enough action
McMeadows says:
it is a good thing the game is on a pause atm
Aqua says:
oh, why? I'd like to get on with it
McMeadows says:
because now a few things need to be sorted out. 1st within BOH. 2nd among the members of the alliance
Aqua says:
I see. well you talk amongst yourselves, then when you've sorted it all our bring your armies back, we shall be even stronger
McMeadows says:
a weakening of your forces now would be welcome
Aqua says:
indeed, but surely that is up to you and your armies
McMeadows says:
and allies
Aqua says:
yes, allies


Aqua is very eager to have us (allies) attack now. He's far too smart to have this all slip. Nontheless he doesn't know why BOH has come to their cease fire exclamation. I think he's quite confident with his defenses. Still he also likes to boast usually, this would be the other approach. It seems he has regained confidence.

	22-07-2005 13:42									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have been right in my suspense over his eagerness to have us attack and regained confidence. I only didn't know to look in another direction to know where it came from.

	22-07-2005 14:11									#51
	1225 BC Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

McMeadows says:
I couldn't but notice your joy over the recent developments in C3CDG. It's well earned. no worries there...
Aqua says:
lol
McMeadows says:
It took me almost a week to get over it and I'm still not happy with what it has yielded me personally... but that's how things probably go
Aqua says:
I'm just rabble-rousing a bit at the moment, provoking some comments from whoever feels like responding
McMeadows says:
I have decided to stay out as much as I can withstand. Albeit, I have noticed DR is to choose a neutral position in the BOH vs EU-Bab-LB evolvement
Aqua says:
yes, we certainly do not wish to involve ourselves in this latest spat between the war-like nations of the world. We have much recovering to do, as we are still the smallest nation on earth, and we feel we can do this as we have a strong enough army to discourage anyone else to attack us again for the time being
McMeadows says:
I'm not all that good at role playing in a conversation as such. We won't have a choice but face BOH and I expect you to show up as well. I understand you will keep a pokerface for now
Aqua says:
lol
though with 3 of you, you should have a decent chance of damaging the Horde
McMeadows says:
If you would like to see that happening you might also be interested in a cease fire among our nation... hmmm or actually, no you would like to see conditions for that
Aqua says:
what conditions do you offer?
McMeadows says:
I was thinking of openly stating never to attack you with our UU.
Aqua says:
hmmm and we should trust you?
McMeadows says:
I have not consulted this with snoopy or others, I'm here to see on how you think about that. Mate, I would resign the game if a treaty I was going to seal was to be broken.
Aqua says:
ideed
McMeadows says:
For that reason I offered to proclaim it in the open. Breaking that would have every nation turn against us. But I think my word is worth more. Off course Euphorica will have to agree and Snoopy will probably resist, but I want to have an option for peace. I understand you will have to discuss as well, as well as think it over. I came to this proposal from thinking why indeed we have wanted to come after you as soon as we found out you were our neighboors: We feared your UU's (and the men directing them). I can understand that you would not enjoy us having an opportunity at building an army of riders that could trample DR. Now would be your chance to deny us that. However, you also feel the pressure of BOH. A true neutral stance would indeed allow DR to grow and expand, while the rest of the world seems to be at war. If BOH loses the war your popcorn will definately taste better, because if they win... you're next
Aqua says:
you think so?
McMeadows says:
... who would else is left by that time if we lose? I don't know if we would make the difference, but you have a chance to help the odds if you accept. Or do you have a different proposal in mind (that involves peace)
Aqua says:
we have made no decisions as yet.....we are still reeling from the possibility of annihilation and need to recover. We have no wish to take on a new alliance of 3. You will do better to ask your new allies Babylon and LB to send their units to protect your lands with all speed!
McMeadows says:
There hasn't been any discussion on strategy there
Aqua says:
that is strange. You form a 3-way alliance and do not discuss strategy? hmmm
McMeadows says:
not yet. I was suprised to see that LB had joined. Babs seem to have been pulled into it by having BOH declare war on them. SO we yet have to sit together and see how we can get it going
Aqua says:
nah, babs have always been your closest ally, no? I have beta in my contact list but he's never online. Therefore communications with Babs have always been difficult. BOH is very mistrusting as you have noticed and we have had a few issues before that were based on ill communication. Overall we have been fairly friendly with the BAbs
Aqua says:
ah, but Beta and Snoopy are very close
McMeadows says:
do they know 1another in RL? I really don't know. Never asked
Aqua says:
dunno
McMeadows says:
not all that important anyway. Snoop has been handling most comminications indeed, which still isn't that much, compared to the energy we had put in maintaining a good situation with BOH. It seems that they freak out when you don't anwer to them quickly. They pose questions and they need answers. Anyway,... here it's about us
Do I understand from your reply that you're not interested (in taking our proposal in consideration, nor make a counterproposal)?
Aqua says:
as I said, we remain an individual nation, not swayed by the demands or pleas of others, in that we remain strong. We need time to consider our position and recover from the war you brought upon us
McMeadows says:
As I said this would be an agreement between our individual nations, nothing to do with an alliance. I did not even ask you to join an alliance
Aqua says:
true
McMeadows says:
It would just state that we would not even be able to become hostile at your nation for quite a while. It would allow you to recover in all peace and us to have more power to withstand BOH and such be a better ally for the others, hence increase chances for all to see BOH go down. Is it worth mentioning to my teammates? if it has no use, I won't try to convince them
Aqua says:
as I said, we have made no decisions
McMeadows says:
that's not an answer to my question
Aqua says:
sorry, your question again?
McMeadows says:
Is it worth mentioning to my teammates? If it has no use, I won't try to convince them = Is it worth considering for you and your team?
Aqua says:
Convincing them of what?
McMeadows says:
what I proposed to you... as I told you, I'm acting here on my own yet
Aqua says:
sorry I don't understand....you need to convince your own teammates that DR should not attack you?
McMeadows says:
no... that we should not use riders against DR later if we want peace now to hold off BOH
Aqua says:
Riders? How are you going to build Riders?
McMeadows says:
-repeated previous proposal in bold-
Aqua says:
as I said, you have little chance of ever building Riders anyway, so your offer is meaningless
McMeadows says:
took quite a while before you mentioned that. Still, if we were to negotiate peace we do have a chance to get to build riders. I can see that is a consideration for DR to attack us now that we are vulnerable. Yet, erasing us will help BOH
Aqua says:
Erasing any team will help all the others
McMeadows says:
If BOH thereafter will win the war against Babs and LB, it's game over. You might help the odds in signing peace with us and remain neutral yourself. The downside would be to have Euphorica survive and get back at you
Aqua says:
and why would we want that? For you to get back at us?
McMeadows says:
sorry was interupted RL
Aqua says:
lol
McMeadows says:
To prevent us from becoming a treat this age and enable the game itself to have a better chance not to have BOH take a decisive edge, We could make an agreement for us not to use our UU against DR (unless you decide to go to war with us again at some stage). That would imply we would not be able to become threat to DR, at least this age. Again meanwhile BOh gets a tougher job nailing 3 nations
Aqua says:
ok, I suggest you take this idea to your people and ask them what other reparations they may wish to offer for your unprovoked attacks and alliances against us
McMeadows says:
so you think there is a basis to start working from? (that's a question)
Aqua says:
I think you guys need to admit you made a grave mistake in forming an alliance against us. that's a start
McMeadows says:
mate... I SURE have realised that. I didn't trust you with immortals and I did trust Paddy with keshiks it is as simple as that. I have been SEVERELY wrong. No doubt about it. Those are our 2 neighboors we had to deal with... choose and make a wrong judgement, that's what we did. All in all, most people know each other from other games and took their judgement over other people with them in this game.
Aqua says:
lol
McMeadows says:
not that much.. I have been disappointed
Aqua says:
now I have turns to play....good evening
McMeadows says:
I will take this up with my team and come back

So I need back-up for my proposal as well as some thought on what to offer DR. As long as we're despotic and have no access to iron, our money is hardly worth a thing. However, as soon as we are able to gain 1 of the 2 we would be in need for it again. I was thinking to give out a loan to DR, for first reparations. I'm afraid we can't offer them much techwise. Otherwise I'd offer them such as well. Maybe along the lines of on repayment of our money we give them monotheism, which we're now researching. (or did they get that as their free tech? In which case we might want to stop that, start earning money and send our excess to DR. I would like to agree that everything we give DR on a turn by turn extra is returned to us when we need it. I would like to have no money in treasure as long as we're likely to loose cities.)

	23-07-2005 07:13									#52
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Wonder how they got feudalism anyway

I'm fine giving them cash, even straight up. Not a lot, but under or up to 100 gp is fine if it's needed; but don't start that high (not that I need to tell you how to negotiate )...

Or, we can promise them a tech in the future, any tech in the game they ask for and we have, once. That gives them some reason to keep us alive more than just avoiding us I'd suggest that, if they're willing.