06-02-2005 17:05									#1
	Our Bank Balance Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

We currently have around 1500 gold in the bank at the end of Emporer Skrobism rule.

I am here today fellow Senators to seek the Senates blessing to use all this cash to rush build troops.

I am fully aware of the arguments against this, however please take a look at the State of The Empire

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=129156

Please also take a good look at the save in the sacred save to be fully informed on your voting here today.

We are currently at war with four nations but we have many Scythian riders running amok in our lands and the Celts are massing to strike deep into our heart.

We desperately need more units in the Alps and balcans, I would like to recapture our recent losses to the Scythians but this will require troops and that will cost money!!

I know of the arguments put forward by the Bankers about interest and so on but shall we save our coffers and use the cash to pay off the Barbarians when they are standing at the gates of ROME!!!

We are in a crisis my fellow Senators, a crisis we can recover form with the right investments, all I ask of the Senate is that you empower me to HIT BACK as hard as I can!!!

I am sure future Emporers will again restore the coffers of Rome whence this state of affairs is passed by.

Last edited by ChrisiusMaximus on 06-02-2005 at 19:17

	06-02-2005 17:07									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Olbia can rush a Legion for 136 Gold and Wines can do so for 140 Gold before I end the turn !!

	06-02-2005 17:09									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Spend the cash

	06-02-2005 17:25									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Always rush units leaving the 1000 Gold reserve. 50 Gold each turn means a rushed Legion more every 3 turns. NOT wine, Emperor. Really, spending it all won't save cities, where reinforcements can't come in time anyway.

We are making 600gpt at the moment, allowing at least 4 unit rushes every turn. This assumes, of course, that cities with 1-turn prebuilds are used. It means, that we can get quick reinforcements anywhere on the continent, even if 2 rushes per turn are used to reinforce hot spots where units can't be transported easily. We should be ok with this.

	06-02-2005 17:48									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

agree with seantor Modo. It's good to have him around

Modo, don't you want to replace Paddy?

	06-02-2005 17:57									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by ormuzd Modo, don't you want to replace Paddy?

No. Commenting is a lot less time-consuming, than actually doing things. I don't have that much time.

	06-02-2005 18:45									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I agree with Senator Modo. Spend anything beyond 1000g. Should there be a very critical situation at a certain spot where rushing a unit will save the day while not doing so wouldn´t, you can of course take from the reserves. They are not sacred, just *very* useful.

	06-02-2005 19:00									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Look at what the current goings-on at the Senate have caused. I thought that the Emperor would not be ham-strung and micromanaged by the Senate. But, ChrisiusMaximus seems compeled to to ask for money lest he be brought up on charges.

Spend the money. I did. We are bringing 600+ per turn. My mistake is that I did not spend enough. We have war on all fronts. Spend spend spend.

	06-02-2005 20:23									#9
	Tired of ads?

We cannot force the Emperor to do anything, and we won't. But he himself asked for advice, didn't he?

	06-02-2005 22:12									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

We must spend the money to make sure the Glorious Roman Empire continues to live and thrive!

	06-02-2005 23:03									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

It's not that bad IMO. That's why I suggested to not spend more than 500 (we have 1500-1600 gold now)

	07-02-2005 00:06									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think I've seen suggestions to keep 1000 in the bank. If that is agreed on then spend about 600 per turn. We have the gold. Spend it.

	07-02-2005 00:17									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think the purpose of this thread is to ask whether he might spend the entire treasury.

This is why some Senators (including me) didn´t vote for yes.

If he spent all money now, he´d get 50g less next turn, and it would take at least two turns of no spendings at all to get back to the current income.
If he was to keep these 1000g as an interests generating fond, we will enjoy the advantages of the entire 600+ net income each turn.

Of course this is not crucial to our Republic, but, as some others already pointed out, it is doubtful whether rushing more units than usual will actually prevent cities from falling.

	07-02-2005 04:36									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Spend it all. I interpreted the poll question as such, and I agree with it. 50 gpt is less than 10% of our current gpt quantity, and as micha so aptly pointed out we can regain it in 2 turns if we desire.

We need military strength *now*, not later. If the returns from using the 1000 gp are greater than 50 gp in value to us, then we should do it without thinking twice; and defending even one roman city that we otherwise would lose, is worth 50 gp to me every time.

Losing less than 10% of our income does not hamstring us in any way, and saving our cities from the rampaging Scythian riders et al. will be worth it in the short AND the long run. Heck, we could save 50gpt worth of cities pretty easily ...

Build even amounts of Legion3's and Heavy Cavs. We need the extra moves Cavalry give us, to go up against the riders, and the riders are weak enough on defense that the extra OP doesn't matter much. And heavy cavs are a bit cheaper, so you get more for your money.

	07-02-2005 05:56									#15
	Got spare money?

Which is why I voted for YES... and did the same in my turn.

	07-02-2005 06:36									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

This poll looks suspiciously like an Australian referendum on switching to a Republic:

1. Should we stay as a Constitutional Monarchy, with the Queen as our nominal head of state and the Governor General as her representative who basically earns a fat salary but has no power while the Government runs the country anyway, or

2. Should we become a Republic with a President who is not elected by the people but can have 100% power and be unaccountable to the parliament?

Guess which way we voted then?

	07-02-2005 10:00									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by skrobism Which is why I voted for YES... and did the same in my turn.

I presume you're not talking about my comment ... as we have now 1500gp, which is 3 turns of income nearly. I am suggesting spending nearly every last cent, *including* the entire 1500gp...

	07-02-2005 13:20									#18
	Suffering from ads?

indeed

clear the vault

For the Glory that is Rome

	07-02-2005 14:02									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just make absolutely sure you bring it back to the reserve. This is a long-term investment we should not forfeit.

	07-02-2005 14:33									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

why is this such an absolute

I do not see that as part of the above vote

Nor do I recall there being any such agreement made previously
now I may be mistaken in this matter
if I am, could you please provide such a link

	07-02-2005 14:44									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The reserve has been discussed previously. Paddy, it provides gold for a Legion rush every 3 turns, if only kept up. And, it would pay for itself after 20 turns anyway. Don't you see the gains for the empire from keeping that gold? More income all the way.

	07-02-2005 15:38									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Also, once spent, we need to NOT BUY ANYTHING for two entire turns in order to set it back up. Not a single legionary could be bought during this time.

Economically, spending the 1000g is a bad thing, except for it was used as an investment that pays off in more income, like marketplaces or enough troops to conquer a city we couldn´t have conquered without it.

	07-02-2005 18:09									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Modo, I agree that it was discussed as you state, but where is it agreed that it absolutley must be replaced when used...

that we must have this surplus all of the time

	07-02-2005 18:25									#24
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Everyone who spoke of it, said to keep it at all times. All others were quiet. Nobody said a single word against it then, hence it was agreed upon.

	07-02-2005 18:39									#25
	Put an end to popups!

so it has not been passed as law or a resolution of the Senate then

just points made during statements then

thank you for the clarification

	07-02-2005 21:27									#26
	Got spare money?

On cash, keep 1000 in the bank to earn interest every turn and spend the rest.

And this phrasing of this poll question is over the line biased in addition to not missing logical choices between the two extremes listed like keeping the 1000 reserve.

There's really no reason for posting polls that are heavily biased in favor of one response, if you've made up your mind as Emperor that your going to do something anyway, there's no reason for the poll to exist at all.

Last edited by joncnunn on 07-02-2005 at 21:32

	10-02-2005 06:42									#27
	Put an end to popups!

I believe that keeping the 1000 gp reserve only for the 50gpt and saying "We must keep this 50gpt income no matter what" is pure hogwash. Nowhere has it been refuted that we might well *net increase* our income from spending all of it now - saving 50gpt in cities lost, or recovering 50gpt in cities, or both. Yes in the short term it looks like a great loss - but in the longer term, not swiftly defeating one or both of these enemies will loom large over our great empire.

And besides: What worth a human life?

	10-02-2005 07:21									#28
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

A simple answer:

You can't take it with you!

Spend it all, and spend it on troops, troops and more troops. Fast troops, strong troops, red troops but not pink troops!

	10-02-2005 12:11									#29
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 A simple answer: You can't take it with you! Spend it all, and spend it on troops, troops and more troops. Fast troops, strong troops, red troops but not pink troops!

Indeed

Play Hard and Party Harder

	10-02-2005 12:54									#30
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 I believe that keeping the 1000 gp reserve only for the 50gpt and saying "We must keep this 50gpt income no matter what" is pure hogwash. Nowhere has it been refuted that we might well *net increase* our income from spending all of it now - saving 50gpt in cities lost, or recovering 50gpt in cities, or both. Yes in the short term it looks like a great loss - but in the longer term, not swiftly defeating one or both of these enemies will loom large over our great empire.

1 whole Legion every 3 turns, or many smaller things finished every turn. Tell me, Emperor (and do the math, this time), how much do we get from 90% corrupt cities, which is how most of them come to us at the moment. Somehow, I seriously doubt we could get anywhere near 50 Gold worth of conquered things every single friggin turn.